To have challenged her on Facebook

[butwhythough]

A post from someone I used to know years ago moaning about #blacklivesmatter and why it should be #alllivesmatter. I haven't spoken to her for years but have liked new baby and wedding posts on Facebook. I read her moaning post and I felt like I had to say something. I was nice, wished her well and didn't criticise but just shared a picture that I saw which explained the issue with #alllivesmatter. She's now deleted me, which is fine, obviously, but it made me wonder if I should have not commented? Does it make a difference that this is my first proper interaction with her in years? I thought about it for a little while before I did and decided that if I didn't then I would be part of the problem, so I did it as nicely as I could. But should I have just said nothing?

A post from someone I used to know years ago moaning about #blacklivesmatter and why it should be #alllivesmatter.

It’s a waste of energy, TBH. She isn’t interested in alternative ways of looking at it, she’s just showboating in SM. FB is the most idiotic of all the SM platforms too.

Save your breath for something else.

You were right to do what you did. This is what being anti racist rather than just not being racist is

Exactly.

You did the right thing. I've got rid of racist people from mine too. Not friends that posted shit but ex colleagues.

You did the right thing morally. But she was never going to thank you for calling her out on it publicly.

It's always worth challenging. Even if nobody else read your post, know that you did the right thing,

@Flaxmeadow YES IT DOES. Being anything less than an educated and vocal ally right now is adding to the problem and perpetuating racism.

Flaxmeadow - I have seen your posts on another thread similar to this and your tone is the same. Police brutality happens here against black people, the difference is we don't arm our officers with guns. Not calling this out for what it is reeks of ignorance. I'm sorry but it does. If everyone took your stance and 'did nothing' then it is allowing racism to continue. The very LEAST I can do is challenge someones view in the hope they actually do educate themselves. Baby steps.
In this age of the internet at out fingertips, there is no excuse on not informing yourself on the matter before commenting.

My reply also applies to Flamed too.

If everyone took your stance and 'did nothing' then it is allowing racism to continue

I haven't taken any stance. I haven't said people should do nothing.

I've been discussing why someone on Facebook might say the things they do and how people debating by using personal attacks isnt helpful. This has nothing to do with my own opinions on the subject.

I really don't get why people do that "All lives matter"reply.. Yes, of course, they do, but the Black Lives Matter movement doesn't say that only black lives matter. They say that they matter too.

I saw a video on FB from USA where a black woman was stopped by police. Her children, who were quite young, immediately started recording because they knew what risk their mother was in. They were crying because they were so afraid the cop would shoot their mum. People should not be at risk to be shot just because they drive a little over the limit. It is sick.

I really don't get why people do that "All lives matter"reply.

To signal their racism and their intent to continue being racist.

Flax - if you choose to see everything as a personal attack, how on earth is anyone meant to call out racism? Please, it almost feels like an attempt to silence. If people say racist things, they should be told that they are racist. It is that simple.

YANBU
If she's going to put her opinions out there, she should expect to sometimes have them challenged or questioned.
She's now deleted me, which is fine, obviously, but it made me wonder if I should have not commented?
Sounds like you're best off rid, how ridiculous - and doesn't sound like you're particularly close anyway if you haven't spoken in years.

I had the same many years ago where I responded politely challenging what I felt were antisemitic remarks in a Facebook post made by someone I knew from school. In all truth I might have ignored it had a number of people not commented agreeing with him, and after some internal wrangling with the ‘ignore/let it be’ part of my personality that hates confrontation, I felt I couldn’t let it pass unchallenged. He responded with an angry message on messenger explaining to me in clear terms why I was out of order, and later deleted me. I was sad in a way as I quite liked him as a person at school but have never regretted speaking up, in fact I have only ever regretted times where I did not stick up explicitly for what I feel is just. You did the right thing OP, it’s always hard when it doesn’t land well but it doesn’t mean someone won’t take it away and think about it in the fullness of time.

@Flaxmeadow you most definitely are taking a stand. There is no excuse for posting ignorant and racist content on social media and no excuse for defending it.

You can claim these aren't your opinions and try to disguise them but your feelings on this subject are showing through your words here for all to see.

There is no space in this climate to play devil's advocate on this subject.

@FlamedToACrisp
The thing I don't like is this attitude of "you should educate yourself - if you don't care, you're helping to cause this problem."

I was horrified to see the stuff about poor George Floyd, and some of the others, and I would never condone the police treating anyone that way. But even if I had been right there on the scene, I could have done nothing to help him

I don't get this attitude.
Maybe you can't physically help, but you can educate yourself a bit?
I'm white, and privileged (privileged as in my skin colour) surely the least I can do is read up on the history?
I can't physically stop violence, but I like to arm myself with knowledge.

@Flaxmeadow you most definitely are taking a stand. There is no excuse for posting ignorant and racist content on social media and no excuse for defending it.

But was the comment by the OPs Facebook friend racist? Im not sure either way.

You can claim these aren't your opinions and try to disguise them but your feelings on this subject are showing through your words here for all to see.

This isn't about, or shouldn't be about feelings. It's a debate. My whole point is that debate should not involve personal attacks, like yours here for example

If you want to discuss my posts, then quote them and we can argue the points both of us make (if you could leave out your assumptions about my feelings and motives though, that would be great)

There is no space in this climate to play devil's advocate on this subject

It's a discussion about some random persons post on Facebook. Why shouldn't it involve playing devils advocate? You can play devils advocate but it doesnt mean you agree with the devil. It's just a way of discussing things. A tactic used in debate

A tactic used in derailing.

OK, I've done a bit of reading up on it...

thecourierdaily.com/george-floyd-criminal-past-record-arrest/20177/

A tactic used in derailing

Why?

I'd say personal attacks are more of a derailing tactic in a debate

This is the problem with debate nowadays. People attack the person instead of the argument. Make assumptions about them, accuse them of having motives, call them names.

Play the ball, not the man

What debate?

What debate?

Any debate, especially online

There isn’t a debate.

There’s you saying ‘But was the comment by the OPs Facebook friend racist? Im not sure either way’ and people ignoring you.

@Flaxmeadow you're smokescreening. There's no debate that needs to happen here. Someone made racist comments on social media and OP correctly called them out on it. Using #alllivesmatter is deliberately pulling focus away from the Black Lives Matter movement and is therefore racist.

Someone, a moaner according to the OP, posted "alllivesmatter" on Facebook and some people seem to have already assumed that means the person who posted it is a "racist", but as I said, I'm not so sure they are.

I don't like the term either, its unhelpful especially at the moment and a distraction, but instead of making assumptions about the persons character, I think it might be better to ask these people posting this hashtag and engage with them in debate

This is my answer to the OP

you're smokescreening.

Which is an accusation

There's no debate that needs to happen here.

But this seems like shutting down debate. Can't you see that some people might feel frustrated by that approach?

Someone made racist comments on social media and OP correctly called them out on it.

This I think is a good point to debate. Is someone posting the hashtag alllivesmatter, which I wouldnt do BTW, necessarily a racist?

Using #alllivesmatter is deliberately pulling focus away from the Black Lives Matter movement

I agree

and is therefore racist

I'm not so sure about this.