To have challenged her on Facebook

[butwhythough]

A post from someone I used to know years ago moaning about #blacklivesmatter and why it should be #alllivesmatter. I haven't spoken to her for years but have liked new baby and wedding posts on Facebook. I read her moaning post and I felt like I had to say something. I was nice, wished her well and didn't criticise but just shared a picture that I saw which explained the issue with #alllivesmatter. She's now deleted me, which is fine, obviously, but it made me wonder if I should have not commented? Does it make a difference that this is my first proper interaction with her in years? I thought about it for a little while before I did and decided that if I didn't then I would be part of the problem, so I did it as nicely as I could. But should I have just said nothing?

You were right to do what you did. This is what being anti racist rather than just not being racist is.

Even if the OP is virtue signalling maybe her post will make others consider doing similar. There’s an awful lot of “all lives matter” going around at the minute. Some of it might be penned by full on racists, some might come more from a place of ignorance. The more people that think actually they can challenge it the better.

If it's any consolation, I've just landed myself in a fb stinker with someone who posted about George Floyd and said where was the outrage when the Muslim peodophile ring happen and was covered up by Labour. She is now having a full blown tantrum because I said her post smacks of racism. And she keeps saying All Lives Matter

You were correct to comment. You merely pointed out how it is not all the same.

Some racism exists because some people say what they want and other people might feel it is wrong but are too scared/worried about what someone might say to call it out/comment etc.

Well done. I wish more people would call things out/comment etc when they see something and not walk on by/scroll on by/ignore and move on and allow people ignorance to continue

YANBU

This whole situation will probably divide many friendships, FB or otherwise. Everyone has their own views and opinions and will differ from some of their friends/relatives. How strong those friendships and relationships are will determine whether they continue or not.

I did something similar but on a reply on a friends fb post so really if was their friend I offended but I am not bothered the #alllivesmatter is just arrogant and dismissive you did the right thing setting her straight.

You did the right thing. More of us should ...

I was genuinely wondering whether it was ok to not speak to someone for years and then criticise them

You dont have to know someone to debate with them, especially about current affairs. But why are you debating by criticising someone?

There's nothing wrong with entering into a debate. A debate is when people argue a point of view. It might be an event in the news or political ideology.

But too much debate nowadays involves pulling down the person you're debating with. Discrediting them or criticising them. Instead of arguing the points they have raised

This personal attack style of debate is sadly I think another import from the USA, where politicians are constantly aggressively being pulled down, not their ideas and policies but for who they are as a person

I read her moaning post...

Already, before you've even replied, you are on the personal attack. Her point of view isn't worth seriously engaging with, because to you she's just a "moaner". Why did you bother in the first place?

...and [she] said where was the outrage when the Muslim peodophile ring happen and was covered up by Labour

And you replied to this point by calling the person who raised it a racist. Another example of a personal attack

Yes, of course you were right to do it. My dh has had a similar experience with an old friend of his, who was complaining about BLM during a phone call with him (they chat every 6 months or so). He carefully explained why BLM was so important and why ALM was simply not a good enough substitute. Sadly she just continued to complain and wasn't influenced to even think about what he said, and in the end he hung up. This morning he woke to a number of texts from her, still reiterating that BLM was out of hand, had gone too far etc. He's not replied and is almost in shock that someone he's known for over 30 years has turned out to be a racist. It's really sad for him.

This is sorting people into definite groups.. It's as well to know which your friends belong to, though, despite it being so upsetting when you discover that someone you thought you know well turns out to be different from what you expected.

I have no issues with people who are religious, despite being an atheist. I have no problem with people voting for parties I despise. I won't have friends who are racist, homophobic, sexist.

This morning he woke to a number of texts from her, still reiterating that BLM was out of hand, had gone too far etc. He's not replied and is almost in shock that someone he's known for over 30 years has turned out to be a racist

And again. More personal attacks instead of debating the issues

What's wrong with saying you disagree with a political protest movement and their methods. Why is disagreeing with BLM automatically seen as that someone being a racist ?

How do you know if someone has deleted you on FB ? Good for you for sticking to your own opinions 💐

You were absolutely right.

I have no problem with anyone else’s opinion, even if it is wildly different to mine, I try my hardest to respect that. This specific topic is not a matter of opinion, it’s the difference between right and wrong. I will not apologise for calling out someone who is racist - nor would I have with someone who is homophobic.

You were right to do that. I blocked someone last night after he started defending Trump. I'm no longer prepared to tolerate anything that tries to make racism acceptable or tolerable. No.
And of course you're not virtue-signalling. That kind of silly knee-jerk reaction is part of the problem. We have a responsibility and a duty to speak out, otherwise we're not going to be able to be part of the fight against racism and oppression

You know that someone has deleted you on Facebook when they are not on your friends list anymore.

@crispysausagerolls

You did the right thing. Now you’ve come to tell MN about it and get a pat on the back for being a hero who fights racism 🤨

So many people at the moment using a genuine fucking problem to self-promote how good they are, rather than actually giving a shit about what’s going on.

There you go OP, you do the right thing and you still get lambasted for it.

Good old Mumsnet, where no good deed goes unpunished.

My stepsisters deleted me on FB for something similar, OP. Good riddance to them I only wish I'd got there first.

I have managed to be first of the mark with the unfriend button with various other right-wing racist types over the years though, so I guess it all evens out.

Flaxmeadow - because the person who posted it has form for posting when 'foreigners' do bad things to white people. None of it is right and of this person truly believed in justice, they would be horrified by the recent killing of George Floyd. But NONE of her posts are about that. That's why it smacks of racism.

You did the right thing IMO.

Well done @butwhythough. We all need to challenge these people

Flaxmeadow - because the person who posted it has form for posting when 'foreigners' do bad things to white people

OK her wording might have been a bit off, maybe she hasn't had the privilege of a good education and used white in the wrong context, but the truth is, some foreigners have done bad things to this country and it's people. At least three people, one of them a child, have been decapitated by foreigners in this country in recent years. Not to mentioned all the terrorist bombs that have gone off. Do you understand why that might make some people want it to be discussed in a public forum? Especially when one of those incidents seems to have to disappeared from the mainstream news completely.

But she could educate herself and chooses not to. No one is disputing that some foreigners have done bad things to white english people. But one act of crime does not negate another which was so horrific. She also mentioned Lee Rigby, there was public outcry over that (rightly so) but it still doesn't negate the horrific nature of what happened to George Floyd. She doesn't grasp the concept of why Black Lives Matter, admitted herself she doesn't know too much about the US climate. I suggested multiple times she could read about it. She refuses to. Her call but it makes her look ignorant.

She doesn't grasp the concept of why Black Lives Matter, admitted herself she doesn't know too much about the US climate. I suggested multiple times she could read about it. She refuses to. Her call but it makes her look ignorant

But she might not have any interest in foreign affairs. I agree it's good to keep up with international news, but she might be wondering what the Gerorge Floyd case has to do with this country and why are people protesting here. I'm not saying I agree would with that point of view but I can understand why someone would question a protest in London about something that happened in Minneapolis. Especially when its specific to the huge problems the USA has with law enforcement. It's on another level over there. The police there are more like a military force. But not understanding it or not particularly caring about it, doesn't make her a racist.

The thing I don't like is this attitude of "you should educate yourself - if you don't care, you're helping to cause this problem."

I was horrified to see the stuff about poor George Floyd, and some of the others, and I would never condone the police treating anyone that way. But even if I had been right there on the scene, I could have done nothing to help him. I'm not in charge of the American police, as I live in the UK, so what am I meant to do about it? It's pretty bloody obvious Trump doesn't care about protesters outside the White House, so he certainly won't pay any attention to protesters over here.

Yes, I'm white. Yes, I am lucky, and privileged, and whatever. Don't worry, I've had plenty of other sorrows in my life, just like everyone else. This just isn't one of the big ones, for me.