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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think some people are being very hypocritical over Black Lives Matter

105 replies

EmmaGrundyForPM · 03/06/2020 08:40

People are, quite rightly, outraged over the killing of George Floyd. On my social media there are loads of posts along the lines of "racism must end" and "all people are equal".

However, many of the people posting this on FB etc are also people who happily expresse the most racist opinions about Travellers. We live in a rural area where Travellers are the largest minority group and the prejudice towards them is horrendous.

AIBU if I point out the irony of this to them? People can't seem to see the parallels.

OP posts:
EmmaGrundyForPM · 03/06/2020 11:26

@SimonJT thanks for that. Have you ever done the Harvard "Implicit Bias" tests? I know they arent perfect and there have been some criticisms of them but i found them enlightening.

We are all products of our upbringing and society, we are all influenced by the media and how people are portrayed. Which is why virtue signalling does nothing to change the unconscious prejudices of our society

OP posts:
SharonasCorona · 03/06/2020 11:32

This thread is a form of virtue signalling given the current climate, where black people have said they are frustrated, horrified, sad and anxious.

TabbyMumz · 03/06/2020 11:36

"So why are you taking it so personally and making it about you and your hurt feelings?"

Because of all the hatred against whites on mn over the last few days. It's been nasty, pure nasty. Not about me at all, it's about the pure hatred against all whites that I'm picking up on.

FreeKitties · 03/06/2020 11:40

SimonJT you’ve really got me thinking now about ‘isms’ on a personal level - Because actually I am sexist, I am unconsciously biased towards men, and within that itself there are things to unpick, if I see a man in military uniform I would automatically feel safe, and if I see groups of football fans I would make sure to avoid and get away from ASAP, but I don’t think I’m unconsciously biased towards women of any race. I genuinely can’t see any woman regardless of race, class or sexuality as inherently different to me on a fundamental level.

I don’t wish to derail this thread, as it’s about racism not sexism so I may start one on FWR.

SharonasCorona · 03/06/2020 11:44

I don’t think I’m unconsciously biased towards women of any race. I genuinely can’t see any woman regardless of race, class or sexuality as inherently different to me on a fundamental level.

I think we are, but it’s unconscious so we don’t realise it.

LolaSmiles · 03/06/2020 12:03

This is a time when the table should be clear of everything except this one issue.
Totally agree.

Some of this thread reminds me of International Women's day when people are discussing issues affecting twomen and then a few people show up saying 'but look at all these issues that affect men... Why aren't you talking about the issues that disproportionately affect men? If you're not talking about male suicide right now on International WOMEN'S Day then you're a bunch of virtue signalling hypocrites.'

Right now millions are concerned about black people being murdered by police in broad daylight. How hard is it to let that be the issue?

VeniVidiWeeWee · 03/06/2020 12:16

@Floofboopsnootandbork

the very same race who actually abolished slavery And also started it Hmm and still to continue to oppress black people every single day!
I think you will find that throughout history slavery was the norm.
SharonasCorona · 03/06/2020 12:34

Right now millions are concerned about black people being murdered by police in broad daylight. How hard is it to let that be the issue?

Yes, but if you say this, you are considered 'stupid' by people on this thread

PaddlingPoolAgain · 03/06/2020 12:39

Whenwillitstop1 So many of these people live in predominantly white middle class areas, they are usually white women, know no black people, would actively cross the street to avoid a 'scary black man' in a hoodie etc.

Surely they live in those areas because of the "middle class" aspect, not because they are actively avoiding black people? Obviously income is linked to race due to racism, but it's not the same as accusing them of hypocrisy for wanting to live somewhere nicer for reasons nothing to do with race.

Knowing no black people would follow from living in white areas, to some extent - but again, it's not the same as activey refusing to know black people, more just who they come into contact with.

As for women crossing the road to avoid a scary hooded man - that's because men are, overall, a threat to women. It's not about skin colour, it's the male aspect that's scary. Similarly, I wouldn't blame a black man for crossing the road to avoid a scary white man in a hoodie...

These just don't seem like evidence of "hypocrisy". The lack of social contact between "races" is a complex issue, I don't think it can be reduced to blaming individuals in these circumstances. And I'm especially concerned about the "black men vs white women" type argument that seems to be appearing in general, where the "whiteness" of the woman is considered but the "maleness" is not. It's white men who murder black people, white men who hold the majority of power.

It pisses me off, it's all virtue signalling bullshit. So many of the right on Twitter 'activists' don't even know any black people and live in the Fucking Cotswolds with mummy and daddy.

Isn't it good that people who don't have direct contact with the issues at hand at least care, or are interested? I suppose where it becomes a problem is when they try to speak for black people. They should be using their privileged position to centre black voices.

SimonJT As an Asian man the biggest threat to me is a white person, so I’m aware that if I was for example on a tube late at night and there was a carriage with a white woman or a group of white men I wouldn’t be comfortable choosing that carriage as I would be putting myself at risk.

Genuine question - what threat do you think a white woman poses to you? (I assume you are talking about direct threat, rather than being a cog in a racist machine.)
In that situation, I (a white woman) would probably choose another carriage to avoid you, based on your maleness. Similarly I would avoid the group of white men in your example. I would feel there was a potential risk because of how men treat women. So I understand your desire to avoid risk, and how it feel to have to do that, but find it frustrating the way white women are held to account for male violence.

I think someone people think unconscious bias is racism, it isn’t and I think that stops people talking about it. Bias is caused by racism as society as a whole is racist, but the bias we all have is so deeply ingrained it becomes part of us. Where as racism is an active choice that we can turn off if we choose.

YY. One of the reasons I find George Floyd's murder so horrific is that it goes way beyond these unconscous biases. I know biases can affect life-or-death split-second decision making, but this was just so... blatent. Intentional. I'm ashamed to say it took this to make me realise just how bad things are.

FTMF30 · 03/06/2020 12:49

@SimonJT Where did I deny their existence? Did I say travellers don't exist? I said I don't believe a traveller is a specific race, just like being Muslim is not someone's race.

SharonasCorona · 03/06/2020 12:52

Genuine question - what threat do you think a white woman poses to you? (I assume you are talking about direct threat, rather than being a cog in a racist machine.)
In that situation, I (a white woman) would probably choose another carriage to avoid you, based on your maleness.

Well Amy Cooper in the US threatened a black man that she would call the police and tell them an African American man was threatening her. I can see why bearded Asian men would be worried this could happen to them.

FreeKitties · 03/06/2020 13:00

That analogy doesn’t work though, racism doesn’t cancel out sexism: men as a class, are a threat to women as a class, the actions of a racist woman towards a black man doesn’t change the threat that men as a class present to women.

SharonasCorona · 03/06/2020 13:02

But I can see why black men are afraid of white women. They know their word is worth less. They need video proof.

User8008135 · 03/06/2020 13:13

Hypocrisy is infuriating i suggest unfollowing or unfriending those people if it's social media.

I saw a few old school bullies, current nasty folks too who minimise mental health isdues posting 'be kind' bullshit and spouting it in offline too. One abuser flooded her fb with it. Hypocrisy...fucking annoying. Challenge them or delete from your life, you'll feel happier.

fairlyplump · 03/06/2020 13:16

This reply has been deleted

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EmmaGrundyForPM · 03/06/2020 13:23

@fairlyplump you've completely missed the point of this debate plus you are displaying overt racism. So yes you will get a backlash

OP posts:
knittingaddict · 03/06/2020 13:38

All lives matter

See my earlier posts for my opinion on that little gem fairly.

FTMF30 · 03/06/2020 13:39

@fairlyplump but "whites" are very much part of the "rampage". Recent protests have included and been led by many whote people. Drop the barbaric black people rhetoric.

FTMF30 · 03/06/2020 13:39

*white

BiBabbles · 03/06/2020 13:45

fairlyplump Yes, they do. Not only are there White people who part of (or are using this) protest to loot, the US had white people starting shite less than a month ago with the anti-lockdown protests. Having seen the footage from m hometown, those were a lot more full of reckless and rampage with lots of gun waving than what's happening now.

There will always be hypocrites, and it's frustrating when it's really obvious like that. I mean, if they said it a while ago, maybe they've changed, but however we want to classify Travelers, if someone says 'all people are equal' as an ideal, then makes it obviously clear that some are more equal in their ideal than others, it's a bit of a mindfuck.

LolaSmiles · 03/06/2020 13:57

SharonasCorona It's such a shame, isn't it.
People can't spend a few days stopping to think about institutional racism that normalises murdering black people without a minority getting annoyed that people are centering the issue of police brutality towards black people within days of yet another murder.

missyoumuch · 03/06/2020 13:59

@fairlyplump Americans of all races are in the streets expressing their discontent. There are many videos of white people burning and doing graffiti if you can even open your eyes. You are an ignorant bigot.

ConkerGame · 03/06/2020 14:05

@GinDaddyRedux that’s actually not the case. Their way of life is nomadic. The laws of this country have made the nomadic culture basically impossible by limiting what land can be used and there basically isn’t enough land for them any more. The system is inherently biased against them and their culture and the police are used to enforce these biased laws against them.

Randomword6 · 03/06/2020 14:09

ChoosingHim baiting for fun or just really really stupid?

phoenixrosehere · 03/06/2020 14:11

*ready for a backlash here.....

All lives matter, when a white person dies by an injustice, and yes it has happened. Do whites go on rampage, no!

I am sick of seeing it they are a disgrace nothing to do with racism, just thugs using a tragedy to cause chaos, disorder and terror.*

No, instead they moan about black people protesting police brutality and black on black crime while ignoring that they have more power than black people, ignore the crime in their own communities and seem to CHOOSE not to protest when police brutality happens to them. Let’s also not forget that white men with guns were able to protest against staying home for their own safety and weren’t met with armed police while unarmed peaceful protestors (and people who weren’t even near or involved) were tear gassed, maced, attacked, shot at for protesting the very brutality they endured. This also includes police firing at people in their homes where there was no protest, looting, or rioting because they were being videotaped and attacking people who were helping those who were injured regardless if those injured were even a part of it or not. Firing rubber bullets at press (live) who I highly doubt are there to loot and riot. Protestors, looters, and rioters are not the same thing. You can be a protestor and not loot or riot. You can be a looter and not protest or riot. You can be a rioter and not protest or loot. You can be one, two, or all three, but they are not the same. Also, many of those looters and rioters were not even from the area and just saw an opportunity. It was also shown that some of those instigating were cops in plain clothes and others from white supremacist groups.

Why are white men with guns less dangerous than unarmed protesters?

Also, you seem to be leaving out that many protestors have tried to stop those trying to make things worse and have protected police and lawmakers while some police have attacked unarmed peacefully protesting politicians.