Are the people protesting in London mad?

[JKD1982]

I agree that what happened in the USA is appalling but why would anyone risk their own health and go against all the social distancing rules to protest in London? It won’t make a difference to what’s happened and could cause another crisis in London hospitals because people catch COVID.

AIBU thinking they are mad and there is a better way (from a laptop?) to express anger

1 in 1000 black men will die at the hands of the police in America.

Let that sink in. 1 in 1000.

The death rates for CV19 are nowhere close, even in BAME communities.

@WhatwouldLangdo

But at the same time, it breaks my heart that My parents aren’t even able to hold their first grandson.

Well it breaks my heart that black children are killed (sometimes by police officers) for no other crime than being black.

Your child is alive. So excuse me if I don't give a shit about your pathetic whinging.

Winging.. But yet all I see is you retaliating to what seems like every post that has the SLIGHTEST disagreement with you, almost like it’s directly targeted towards you?

It seems as though an opinionated debate isn’t something in which you are able to hold lightly.
Why bother voicing your opinion may I ask if you’re so uptight and offended by others?

I hope that things do change for those not only in America.
I’d also like to add you made it seem like I don’t give a care to those losing their lives, seems you missed reading the rest of what I wrote and just wanted to pick at the one thing you choose put aside for more towards an argument than a civilized debate.

The person of this post put up for a genuine adult, civilized debate. I’m embarrassed to see how people are handling this.

changeitupagain In case that's what you might have found wrong with my posts. I must clarify. I specified black people (rather than the all BAME groups) being at increased risk from Covid because the protestors were chanting black lives matter.

@ToffeeYoghurt

You don’t seem to have read my post properly.

The risk of dying at the hands of the police from being a black man in the USA is much higher than the risk of dying from CV19 - whatever age/race you are.

So the people protesting are, quite rightly IMO, making a stand against the greater threat to their fellow man.

How does it help? It shows solidarity, brother/sisterhood, provides evidence of a larger body of public support, it helps people voice their anger, it garners headlines and other media coverage that reaches more people and encourages them to examine the systemic failures in all our countries to protect and further equality amongst all races.

You talk about risk without seeming to be able to evaluate that risk in a meaningful way.

For your scenario (whereby the protestors are endangering BAME lives across London - to paraphrase) to be true, one or more protestors would have to be: infected + shedding + not wearing a mask + stay within 2m of someone else for 10/15 minutes or more. The other person would also have to be close enough for long enough for enough viral particles to enter their body by way of soft tissue such as eyes.

A lot of different criteria need to be met for each potential transmission - a lot more criteria than needs to be met by a black man living in America to die at the hands of the police. All he has to do is exist.

And before you ask why protest in London when I’m giving the example of an American black man - because I don’t think British lives are more important than American ones; if people want to stand up to be counted here, in solidarity with Americans, then that is their right.

The protesters were standing close together, not wearing masks for long periods of time.
Mass gatherings of any kind are not allowed at this time.

So why were you there @Ilikewinter?

Unless of course, you weren’t so couldn’t possibly know how close people were standing, and for how long, and whether they were wearing masks?

Seems unlikely, though, that you would make such a confident assertion without having been present, so I guess I must stand corrected.

I’m not particularly worried about covid buti did raise an eyebrow. It’s not because I’m racist. Nor is it because I don’t have a vested interest in ending racism (my children are mixed race, both DH and I are ethnic minority descents and I don’t want them to grow up in a word where they have to think twice about going to an American university/takings job there when the time comes). You can wonder whether a traditional protest is wise in the time of a pandemic without disagreeing with the cause. It wouldn’t be hard to practice social distancing and, given that it’s in the fresh air, the infection risk would be small. At least many are wearing masks. I doubt it will cause any more of a spike than people crowding beaches for no reason.

I am disheartened by some of the comments here. The timing of George Floyd's murder is now, delaying action until there is a cure for Coronuvirus would have zero impact. Killing of black people by police is a public emergency, no less so than coronuvirus.

Saying these protests are an excuse for a piss up is a disgusting negligence of the experience of black people. Please have a look at some of the below instagram accounts to help you understand:

@ibramxk
@shaunking
@munroebergdorf
@blklivesmatter
@privtoprog

The protests are not the only incidents where social distancing hasn't been adhered to, and the idea that you feel you can chastise those that are out there trying to have their voice heard and create change, is evidence enough of your privilege. There is a saying, Rioting is the language of the unheard.

I'm a middle aged, middle class white woman who has never been involved in politics and has never attended a protest in her life. If it wasn't for CV I would be seriously considering getting out there are protesting about the killing of black people in the US and racism everywhere.

Sometimes an event happens that cuts through our white privilege and makes us look again at our safe, comfortable lives. Even a year or so ago, I might have been a bit judgemental about the raw anger and the rioting. It seems clearer now that peaceful protest hasn't done a thing to change minds, so what else are black people expected to do.

I used to like visiting the US, but I wouldn't set foot there if you paid me. Once you know about this stuff you can't unknow it. Yes, the UK has a problem with racism too.

@knittingaddict Sometimes an event happens that cuts through our white privilege and makes us look again at our safe, comfortable lives

That's right. I am white also, although I have always had an interest in the social sciences (I did my undergrad in this). Sometimes the things we see cause so much discomfort that it is easier to look away, and continue in those comfortable lives, pretending it isnt my problem, I can't help, it doesn't happen here. But none of that is true, silence is also compliance. Feeling uncomfortable because you are so shocked you cannot unsee or look away is part of learning and changing, we should all be very uncomfortable.

That,

What is your source as to 1/1000 black men dying at the hands of police?! From what I can see there were a total of 1,000 or so people killed by the police in the US in total, which is about 1/300,000 overall.

Black people are 3x likelier to be killed by police, and men more likely than women, but even if we run with 6x, that is still 1/50,000.

Covid on the other hand has already killed over 100,000 in the US with a disproportionate amount of deaths being both black and male. And that is in about 3 months.

So, on the face of it, if you are a black male, you are over 100x more likely to die of Covid than at the hands of the police.

mappingpoliceviolence.org/

So, I think having a mass protest in the middle of a pandemic is grossly irresponsible. Maybe they should have asked some of the many BAME frontline NHS staff how they feel about treating a second wave in 5 day’s time.

This conversation just reminded me of this photo that's been wildely shared on Twitter

larryg - your figures are per year. If 1/50,000 black men die at the hands of the police this year, and 1/50 black men die of any cause this year, then 1/1,000 deaths will be at the hands of the police.

OP where's your thread for people gathering in hoards at the beaches?

That's right, you have created one, because it's a perfectly fine activity to in the throes of coronavirus. yet protesting in the name of George Flyod isn't.

Digbee,

People are also born every year, the population is not static over 50 years.

The ‘check your privilege’ thing though.... Could you not argue that it’s a privileged position to be able to protest?

I don't know what people don't understand, it's quite simple. Privelledged in this sense doesn't mean your life is easy, just that it isn't made harder by the colour of your skin.

I’m sure many are going with genuine motives, but IMO there’s always an element that will go on any march for anything, because they enjoy the feeling of protesting about something, anything.

Not that I think any march in London or anywhere else is going to make a jot of difference to what happens in America - IMO it’s naive to think it will. Plus of course plenty of Americans are just as appalled as anyone here about the recent killing.

It’s the usual suspects, do they think Trump will listen😂. Like the riots when a criminal was shot, it was about stealing trainers and iPhones

Racism happens in London. The same kind of things happen too, just we hear about it less. People are angry and sick of it, all over the world.

Yes, the mass gatherings are not appropriate right now but whilst you or I are adhering to these lockdown rules so many people have fucked about with going for picnics with zero social distancing, going to the beach en masse, had family over for barbeques, gone to garden centres with their whole family because they needed to look at what to buy for their garden, etc. Yes, it's not a massive protest but these people have also jeopardised us. So, if I think about what makes me angrier and then what I feel is more worthy, I don't mind the protesting right now because that photo @africansassenach posted is what I see happening in the UK, even if it isn't in the literal sense.

Any mass gathering at the moment is just stupidity...but you aren't allowed to say that on here apparently as it makes you racist or privileged

I’m surprised the media even shown it.

However the timing makes the protest and what’s behind it even more visible to the world. I’m white and got accused of being a ‘virtue signalling bitch‘ through supporting this movement.

If I was there I would have gone too. It’s got to stop. I know people like to think racism has been eradicated but it really hasn’t.