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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Police officers kneeling with protesters over George floyd

127 replies

makingmiracles · 31/05/2020 23:03

Have seen the pictures, they make me feel quite uncomfortable. I understand they are kneeling in forgiveness but it seems quite distasteful given how the poor man died. Aibu?

OP posts:
Jangirl2018 · 02/06/2020 08:46

@ITonyah

Once again, ignorance and stupidity is exhibited. There is not once person on here who would know EVERYTHING going on in the news, but there are people who spend less time on here engaging in the obtuse ‘debates’ and actually reading and educating themselves. If you want to educate yourself in what’s going on, it’s not hard to do though is it? Problem is, the vast majority on here spend more time spouting crap and acting dumb and at a loss in this forum, when all it would take is a quick google search most times. Thats the point, and the fact that needs to be spelled out to you is quite worrying.

ITonyah · 02/06/2020 08:53

Please don't be worried about me Smile I read two newspapers every day. I am not privileged enough to assume that everyone else has the time and money to do this, however, so I think asking questions in fora is a good quick way to be educated.

Lweji · 02/06/2020 08:56

The OP didn't ask what it meant. Just assumed police officers kneeled "in forgiveness" whatever that means. And jumped to distasteful.
Therefore BU.

There are two points of view. You're either outside thr US and not very aware of what's going on there, and look for info and read the news.
Or you are in the US, and therefore asking about it means you haven't been paying attention to the fight that people in your own country have been having.

Nobody needs to know everything on the news. What pps have been saying is that they are tired of explaining black issues to people who, quite frankly, don't care or haven't cared enough so far to understand them.
Like explaining to the 1000th time to men that feminism isn't about women ruling. Or your ill friend telling you all about their illness again because you have forgotten most things since you last met.
If there's an issue that you don't understand in the news there's plenty information if you google it.
In particular, there's no need to insist that people having those issues owe you an explanation.

And BTW, racism isn't a black issue, or Hispanic, or whatever. It's a human issue.
It's something that we all need to address and know about. It's something that we all need to understand and to fight.

BeardedMum · 02/06/2020 08:57

Please don’t be worried about me either. I read newspapers and watch the news and I am far from generally ignorant. I love MN for the knowledge and different points of views you can get. This thread not so much.

BeardedMum · 02/06/2020 09:04

Also no one on this thread is asking anyone to explain what racism is or displaying any opinions or attitudes which suggest they are unaware of racism.

Jangirl2018 · 02/06/2020 09:12
  • Nobody needs to know everything on the news. What pps have been saying is that they are tired of explaining black issues to people who, quite frankly, don't care or haven't cared enough so far to understand them. Like explaining to the 1000th time to men that feminism isn't about women ruling. Or your ill friend telling you all about their illness again because you have forgotten most things since you last met. If there's an issue that you don't understand in the news there's plenty information if you google it. In particular, there's no need to insist that people having those issues owe you an explanation*

THIS!!! Finally some sense is displayed! The sense of entitlement and misguidedness of ‘asking questions on here is a good and quick way to be educated’ LOL, is it?? I guess if you want to end up misinformed at the very least.

AwwDontGo · 02/06/2020 09:18

They are kneeling in solidarity, not forgiveness. Why on earth would it be in forgiveness?

I agree

mathanxiety · 02/06/2020 09:34

They are kneeling because of Colin Kaepernick's kneeling protest during the National Anthem before football games. The kneeling gesture was chosen because it was respectful while still visible and not the usual response to the National Anthem.

Kaepernick was the San Francisco 49ers quarterback who started his protest in a context of police brutality and ongoing oppression of African Americans.

While the kneeling has generated a good deal of anger about the perceived disrespect to the flag and to the memory of fallen service personnel, many African American veterans point out that they are often the victims of racists in their everyday civilian lives. There is a good deal of hypocrisy in the anger against the protest, therefore.

There is a good deal of umbrage being taken on this thread after criticism of ignorance. Quite honestly, I do not think this response is merited.
This article sums up why:
medium.com/national-equity-project/what-if-white-people-took-responsibility-for-our-role-in-this-moment-12b979d27eb6
It is not our “fault” that we don’t know or understand our role as white people in perpetuating white supremacy — most of our schools don’t teach us about whiteness — whiteness is simply the unspoken norm. But it is our responsibility to urgently and rigorously, educate ourselves and our white children about the history of whiteness...

...We can either actively work to dismantle the structures, policies, practices, and belief systems that contribute to a world where an unarmed black man can lay in broad daylight pleading for air and calling out for his mother while he dies at the hands of white police officers. Or, we can go about our lives believing that we are not a part of that awfulness and tacitly accept the rules, benefits, and consequences of white supremacy...

We need to Do our own work to understand the history of whiteness in the United States and how a system of white supremacy has both benefited and harmed us.

Check out the 'pyramid of white supremacy' in this article.
Think about how the history we are taught positions white people as the default actors, with other people playing bit parts that are reflections of white history. We cannot simultaneously be central to world history, aka the history of whiteness operating in the world, and peripheral to the experience of the other people in society.

If we don't know what the problem is, how can we participate in fixing it - how can we begin to the work of fixing us if we get our hackles up when challenged on our ignorance?

The problem with 'Not all police are racist' is the same as saying school shootings are not a problem - because 'Not all schools'. No, not all schools, but guns are everywhere (in the US) and almost anyone who wants one can get one, or twenty.

It's the same as the problem with 'Not all men are like that' - the system is set up to give the police a huge advantage over those they have contact with, and they can rely on basic assumptions about how the world should be ordered to generate support for them when they brutalise black people. That is the problem. It's not individual bad apples. It's the culture in a municipal police department. It's the locker room jokes that are tolerated. It's the off duty parties and fishing trips where police buddies loosen up and share prejudices. It's the leadership that fails to recognise that all of this is a problem and fails to establish a different culture, fails to set a standard higher than the ignorance and prejudice of the fundamentally racist cultural context. It's the bedrock assumption that police are there to safeguard white people and their property from black people and that black lives do not matter.

Shock, horror, a Minneapolis police officer (a Somali-American) shot a white Australian women dead a few years ago and was acquitted of the most serious charge brought against him but found guilty of lesser charges. This shooting occurred shortly after the murder of Philando Castile, also in Minneapolis. The Minneapolis PD was found by inquiries in the wake of those murders to have many problems - built-in, systemic, institutional problems in its policing approach. Nothing was done to change things.

White people know perfectly well how this all works, as seen in the incident in Central Park in NYC when Amy Cooper (white) threatened to call the cops on Christian Cooper (black) with a concocted story about him threatening her life. She made her threat and carried it out on camera. She weaponised her advantage. She expected bias from the police. She expected they would teach him his place, perhaps brutally - she knew he would realise the implications of a police call too, a call about an 'African American man' threatening a white woman. She knew the operator would know she was white because she mentioned 'African American man', and she had her accent going for her. Her calculations were absolutely correct. Her confidence and her threat came from a lifetime of experience and observation.

Up until people started filming and posting footage online it was possible to dismiss complaints about police heavy handedness, bias, and brutality as the work of agitators and meddling lefty journalists. There are still people who won't believe what they are seeing, who insist on the bad apple theory.

In the current perfect storm of covid-19, massive job losses among the poorest, a disproportionate death rate among the poorest, who happen to be African American and Hispanic, and now the reopening of the economy and with it the looming threat of millions of evictions because people who are unemployed can't pay their rent, Amy Cooper tilted her head sideways and taunted her victim with the entire weight of American history, and a Minneapolis police officer suffocated a man to death.

The pushback has been a long time coming.

mathanxiety · 02/06/2020 09:36

Quite honestly, I do not think this response is merited.

That is, the response of umbrage.

I agree with Lweji on why many posters here are frustrated about the ignorance.

TabbyMumz · 02/06/2020 10:22

To be honest I really dont think its caught on in the UK as a thing, so hardly anyone is aware of it. If someone said the phrase "take a knee" to me, I'd presume they were praying as it's very similar to the phrase "take a pew".

differentnameforthis · 02/06/2020 11:17

Solidarity, not forgiveness. They have nothing to be forgiven for.

Unless you think all police officers are racist murdering thugs...

SimonJT · 02/06/2020 11:23

The cunt Trump had his staff tear gas pastors on the grounds of their own church so he could pose with a bible.

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 02/06/2020 11:24

@SimonJT

The cunt Trump had his staff tear gas pastors on the grounds of their own church so he could pose with a bible.
Just horrendous

The whole thing but especially trump, just an awful awful man

BlackBucketOfCheese · 02/06/2020 11:24

Perhaps the critics are the ones living in a bubble where people read and watch the news?

Or perhaps we are in the bubble of getting stopped regularly when we leave the house?

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 02/06/2020 11:25

And thats an excellent post math

Notmyrealname855 · 02/06/2020 11:28

Oops pressed YANBU as didn’t read the post properly!!

YABU, kneeling was one of the main forms of protest from recent years and a peaceful and iconic way to do so.

Different point but... Find it a little bit shocking that lots of people are now saying “they should protest and take the knee!”, when some of those same people found the kneeling somehow unAmerican Hmm

Notmyrealname855 · 02/06/2020 11:29

Math thank you for your informative posts Star

B1rdbra1n · 02/06/2020 11:30

This perfect storm features a lightning rod

Lweji · 02/06/2020 11:32

Find it a little bit shocking that lots of people are now saying “they should protest and take the knee!”, when some of those same people found the kneeling somehow unAmerican

There is no right way to protest. That is key.

And for those who really want to know, here is Trevor Noah mentioning how protests are ever quite right, among other things.

B1rdbra1n · 02/06/2020 11:33

Trump the cunt, yeah that's the phrase that springs to mind for me too
but I also find myself wanting to refer to this person as 'it' because I can't think of this person as human

RufustheLanglovingreindeer · 02/06/2020 11:35

I did struggle with the word ‘man’ in my post B1rd

B1rdbra1n · 02/06/2020 11:47

On another thread I referred to him as 'the orange changeling' but really nothing feels right, it feels demeaning to myself to refer to another human being as 'it' I don't want to be a person who consciously and deliberately dehumanises other people

Coyoacan · 02/06/2020 12:16

Well, I'm sorry if I have added to the upset of black people on this thread. This is definitely not the moment, it is hard enough for you.

Smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 02/06/2020 12:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JackiFazaki · 02/06/2020 19:17

Trump tear-gassing pastors for a religious photo opportunity. Long article, but worth reading if you didn't know that this had happened..
www.npr.org/2020/06/01/867532070/trumps-unannounced-church-visit-angers-church-officials?t=1591121423332

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