To think it is utterly crazy that shielders can now meet up with people?

[Biglittlethings]

At midnight last night the Government slipped out a frankly bizarre new alteration to the rules in that shielders, who have been told on the one hand to expect that they will need to shield beyond 30 June, will from tomorrow be able to not only leave the house, but meet up with others from different households.

"From Monday, the 2.2 million people who’ve been shielding can go outside for first time. This will be with either members of their household, or, if they live alone, to meet one other person."

Further information will follow in today's press conference.

Am I the only one to think this is absolutely ridiculous, and not at all in the interests of "the science?"

@ElizabethG81 neither do I , let me explain the poster said that already her friend thinks ( due to the new shielding advice) it’s ok to visit in the garden and walk through her house. Also that the understanding ( of shielding ) was gone. If the posters was not shielding her post makes no sense. They did not say” I am shielding “ but there whole post was about why their friend is already not understanding shielding and what it means for them.

*their

@SleepingStandingUp arr that makes more sense then thankyou :)

The government now realise that some of the most risky conditions for covid - obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes - are so prevalent amongst the British public that they cannot make allowances for all people who have them. They’ll soon try to make the very concept of shielding obsolete.

None of these are grounds for shielding

@Aridane

The government now realise that some of the most risky conditions for covid - obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes - are so prevalent amongst the British public that they cannot make allowances for all people who have them. They’ll soon try to make the very concept of shielding obsolete.

None of these are grounds for shielding

That’s precisely they point. They WEREN’T conditions for shielding back when the guidance was issued. But in light of headlines like this, they probably should be:

“People living with diabetes face a significantly higher risk of dying with COVID-19 with a third of deaths in England associated with the condition, according to new NHS research..”

In reality there isn’t really much difference they can only meet up with one other person outside. They can’t go shopping etc.

@LadyFeliciaMontague Are you saying the shielded shouldn’t phone their Dr for advice on their condition and if the benefits of a walk could help because the Dr might be busy? I've every right to discuss this with the Dr, as does anyone shielded. We are not a blanket group, there’s many different conditions with many different needs and the last time I looked we were still humans with the right to discuss our fears, mental health and medical need/risk with a Dr, even if it’s to assess going for a walk.

@wildchild554 - anyone shielding can go to the shops, because they aren't under house arrest. It isn't recommended in the guidance (one walk outside per day is not "going to the shops") and wouldn't be a good idea, because it's more risky.

@VelveteenBunni

I really do think they are trying to kill us as pp's have said.

This is a shambles.

Get a grip

@LadyFeliciaMontague

The best thing to do is ring your doctor tomorrow and see what they advise because every shielded person's circumstances will be individual

I hope nobody does this. Surgeries are busy enough without having to tell people that they are still high risk.

It would be unrealistic to expect doctors to be able to speak to all shielding people today, about changes to government guidance that came out last night and that doctors had no prior warning of. However, it is not unreasonable for people with underlying health conditions to ask to speak to their doctor non-urgently, to have a conversation about the risk-benefit balance in their particular case of going for a daily walk (for example).

My wife is a GP, and is not currently busy. She is doing far fewer consultations each day than in normal times, mostly over the phone. I'm sure she would be happy to have such conversations, and relieved to have an opportunity to help people weigh up risks. Otherwise, the danger is that patients either put themselves at risk by going out when it is unwise, or conversely damage their own physical and mental health by staying holed up when in their particular case a walk around could have benefits that would far outweigh the risks.

Everyone's circumstances and outlook will differ.

My husband is on the shielding list due to cystic fibrosis. He's also very outdoorsy, as so would have gone mental if he'd had to stay indoors for the past 2 months. He's been going out once a day for a walk or cycle, away from other people.

My mother is also on the shielding list, and has stayed home for the last 2 months. She lives alone, and is going stir crazy. I've already been to see her, and just sat in the garden well away from her.

There's a pretty huge difference between both of these and normal activity. But it's like people have lost all ability to apply logic and reason during all of this.

The thing is, you get people moaning that shielders have been forgotten about (was a question to Boris a few days ago), when the entire point of shielding is to protect individuals. The government can’t win. Shielders don’t have to go out.

My mum is shielding but has been going out for the last week. I fully support her in this decision. She lives on her own in a small flat with no garden or balcony and was getting very depressed cooped up inside. She said it felt like being in prison.

People's mental health matters too.

@Pixxie7

In reality there isn’t really much difference they can only meet up with one other person outside. They can’t go shopping etc.

Of course they can go shopping. They are adults who are able to make their own decisions. They aren't under house arrest.

Seems fuckimg mad to me.
I've been told to shield, someone keeps trying to deliver me a food box.
Someone tried to deliver a food box on friday because I'm shielding, yet I'm supposedly allowed out to see people.

You don't have to do it. Some may feel a local walk or seeing 1 person at a social distance would be positive for their physical and mental health. No one is suggesting a trip to the shops or local beach/ beauty spot.

@Apirateslifeforme. You still can't go into shops, you can go outside for a walk.

@PinkOnWednesday I thin shielders felt forgotten as we had no plan at all other than 30th of June (They extended this quietly, I certainly didn't get the update and only knew because I spend time online). I think it would have eased frustration if some sort of outline plan was put in place, such as introducing a walk once infection levels reach a certain level or the now spoken about review of more individual conditions by GPs and specialists rather than the blanket shielding. It didn't need to be a timeline, just an indication of what we could expect them to be doing, rather than just stay home and we'll update you in two and a half months time.

I agree with you about the outcry we are now seeing when this change was introduced and I am surprised by it, going for a walk is entirely up to the individual and there are people who have physical needs to walk, there are people who have no human interaction etc so I think for those people as long as they make sensible risk assessments it can be a good thing. I think it was just so sudden, being announced by the BBC at 10 at night after months of nothing.

Lastly, shielding does protect us, yes, but it also protects the NHS, this is important. If the NHS fails because all us shielders take the beds then the general population will suffer through lack of treatment too, this will then further impact the economy and we will have a lot more deaths across the country, not just us. Yes we are protected, but its a wider issue not just our health.

Also remember to distinguish the law and recommendations - utterly different at times. The regulations in England were last amendments are here www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/500/pdfs/uksi_20200500_en.pdf. They have never been as strict as recommendations so they have allowed people to make some but not all of their own choices.
I think we should be moving a lot quicker to personal choice after 10 weeks of compulsory lockdown however.

How does it work with furloughed shielders? We have a number of staff who are furloughed due to shielding as that was government approved so have been receiving 80% of salary rather than just SSP. Do they now have to return to work or move onto SSP? It's a fucking minefield and almost a full time job to keep up with daily changes.

I’d just keep them on furlough. The shielding letter is still evidence that they can’t come to work and they can be furloughed in these circumstances. The change to the guidance for shielded people is minor,

I don’t think it’s crazy. My grandfather is 98 years old and in a care home alone. He has stopped eating, probably due to depression and loneliness. He had lots of family visits and outings before lockdown. There’s no reason we can’t visit him in the care home’s gardens maintaining distance, now the government is allowing this, I’m hoping the care home will allow it.

OTOH I think lockdown overall has been eased too quickly and I won’t be allowing my children to return to school until September at the earliest.

@PinkOnWednesday

The thing is, you get people moaning that shielders have been forgotten about (was a question to Boris a few days ago), when the entire point of shielding is to protect individuals. The government can’t win. Shielders don’t have to go out.

I've complained about shielded being forgotten about and wrote to my MP to ask him to raise it, but what I was referring to was no mention of shielded in the daily briefings other than a cursory "we know it's tough", no discussion of plans for past the 30th June with regards to possible easing, going back to work, will our jobs be protected if we have to shield past 30th June, will we be furloughed or put onto SSP etc. What I didn't want was advice to be given on Thursday "no change for shielded" and then a sudden change announced in the Sunday papers with no explanation as to why the sudden change, nor information about the data that has changed the advice. So, yes, I do still think those of us shielding have been ignored and forgotten about.

It really would not have been difficult for the government to tell shieldies they can go out daily if medically agreed. That is pretty much what has been happening anyway, would get the PR kudos they wanted whilst negating danger to those whose medical team would prefer they weren't further exposed than necessary.

It's the floodgate approach that doesn't sit right with me.

YABU. Stay in/go out - they can make a reasoned decision on their own without having to ask nanny first.

Everybody saying shielders don't have to go out, it's your own choice- how easy do you think it's going to be to explain to your employer that you still need to work from home if the government have said shielders can now go out freely?

Sometimes I wonder if all MNers live on private money with plentiful savings in the bank.

@corythatwas

Everybody saying shielders don't have to go out, it's your own choice- how easy do you think it's going to be to explain to your employer that you still need to work from home if the government have said shielders can now go out freely?

Sometimes I wonder if all MNers live on private money with plentiful savings in the bank.

But they haven’t said that shielded can go out freely. They said that they can take initial steps to spend time outdoors with their household, or with one person from another household if the shielded lives on their own. This clearly does not mean that working out of the home would be possible.