To Say Tanks (SUVs) should be banned in cities

[Lovesgood]

www.fastcompany.com/90420280/should-we-ban-suvs

www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/07/a-deadly-problem-should-we-ban-suvs-from-our-cities

They are a pest! I have always disliked them. I know Im not BU by the way. This is something that needs to be looked into properly and where better to start than here on mumsnet where the standard reply about these crap cars is "But I need a tank to drive my kids to school" They are NOT safer than other cars! Its a myth peddled by the car industry and only people who have no clue about cars believe that! (So plenty of people sadly).

@HellloBambinos and I don't disagree with the need for cities to have less pollution and better public transport options on the whole. I would love to be able to get suitable public transport, and get safely to my inner city hospital appointments and not pay for £20 of parking that it costs me to see my specialist. There needs be significant investment into suitable infrastructure, cycle lanes, public transport accessible for a variety of disabilities, not just with a ramp and a few folding seats fitted as an after thought that someone who is able bodied thinks is accessible, lots of seating at varying so that people with disabilities can sit often whilst walking, longer time on pedestrian crossings, the list goes on.

My worry however, is that people with disabilities are often marginalised and forced to "prove" their worthiness for almost every single provision that they have much like your "regulation" idea. There are entire businesses built on the premise that people with disabilities are inherent liars out to defraud or gain special treatment. We don't need any more hoops to jump through, more things to have to qualify for to be able to continue to participate in life.

With the right incentives, one would hope that people will choose to make better, more ethical choices of their own volition without making it an "us" and "them".

Unless it's part of your job, I'd ban cars altogether

And how exactly would that work? Clearly you haven't considered the logistics of you insane suggestion.

@HorseChestnutTree fair point, without being able to drive to work I would have had to go off sick at about 14 weeks pregnant. I'd have got full pay for a month, then stat. That would have them messed up my maternity pay. I had PGP and because it's temporary you don't qualify for a blue badge.

Surely it's more insane to keep clogging and polluting our cities with nonessential car use

@cologne4711

I have an SUV because I can’t get into cars with a lower seating position and need the boot space for my mobility scooter or wheelchair. I have no other transport options because my local station isn’t accessible and the bus service is limited

I've seen this argument run before (probably in the thread I just linked to) but the Honda Jazz and even the Toyota Yaris have a really good seating position for people with mobility problems. They don't fix the issue of space though - the boot in my Yaris is teeny tiny!

A friend has a Jazz, it’s orange which is unforgiveable, however the seating is very low down and not at all comparable to the seat position in an SUV. In many SUVs you do not need to bend down to get in/out, unless you’re four foot tall you do need to bend to get in/out of a jazz.

People are getting bigger too so are going for bigger cars. Watching my fat brother getting out of my sisters mini is hilarious. He drives a 4x4 so he can just step in and out of it.

@HorseChestnutTree

There would still be buses/trams/bikes permitted so people shouldn’t just stop being aware of their surroundings. Lower speed limits and signage would be wise though.

Perhaps not a blue badge then but some kind of medical exemption or permit to be able to drive and park in the city for people like you and your daughter. They could be given on a temporary of permanent basis.

The logistics would need to be looked into for sure, and some investment would be required but as a goal I think it’s a bloody good one.

I exclude people who genuinely need their cars from this, but lots of us just use them because it’s easy and because we can, not because it’s essential.

Surely it's more insane to keep clogging and polluting our cities with nonessential car use

Who gets to judge whether a journey is essential or not?

Surely it's more insane to keep clogging and polluting our cities with nonessential car use

What’s non-essential though?

Genuinely it would be no skin of my nose if I couldn’t drive into cities, I rarely go anyway and would just order online. Public transport would have to be massively improved so it doesn’t have a dire effect on an already dwindling high street.

@DdraigGoch

Plenty of people can't cycle for various reasons. Chief among which is the presence on the roads of squadrons of lunatics on four wheels. So, turn city centres car-free and the biggest reason is null and void.

All buses on timetabled routes are low-floor now, almost all trains are fully accessible (the last of the Pacer fleet and slam-door coaching stock is due for imminent withdrawal) and the list of step-free railway stations is growing as the access for all scheme runs.

So we just want to increase the number of disabled people either missing their trains or getting trapped on them because station staff don’t have time to load/unload despite the small proportion of disabled users.

The number of step free train and tube stations is shameful. People with certain disabilities can only get on buses when the specific seating area is empty, if there is already a wheelchair, or just one passenger with poor mobility no one else with mobility problems can get on. My partner has a physical disability, it means he isn’t 100% stable on his feet and he has limited use of his hands so he cannot grip a rail to steady himself. In normal times he regularly cannot use buses because the seating that is suitable for him is already full.

And how exactly would that work? Clearly you haven't considered the logistics of you insane suggestion

Why is it insane.
Millions of people don't have cars and it works for them

My worry however, is that people with disabilities are often marginalised and forced to "prove" their worthiness for almost every single provision that they have much like your "regulation" idea.

This ^^. HelloBambinos it is like having to go through the Spanish inquisition to get any sort of provision. Epilepsy is hard because you can go for weeks/months with no seizures and then have a massive one, which may then bring on a period of much more regular seizures. But it is hard to put that down on paper so that it satisfies an often 'one size fits all' system.

An awful lot of work would need to be done on public transport to make banning cars even remotely possible

Obviously yes and public transport would come on in leaps and bounds.
Less pollution. Less deaths and illness from pollution. Less noise. Less accidents.

Much more links. Cheaper, cleaner. What's not to like

Free country innit

I personally don't like them, none of your business what other people buy with their money though.

Why is it insane.
Millions of people don't have cars and it works for them

Great. But it doesn't work for everyone. How would you expect disabled people to get around? People who need to travel with a wheelchair? Public transport isn't always a feasible option, plenty of villages and rural locations don't have many buses. Please explain how your "no cars except for jobs" would be practical for all people?

Why is it insane.
Millions of people don't have cars and it works for them

It might work for me if my employer was happy with me arriving at 11 and leaving at 3.

Much more links. Cheaper, cleaner. What's not to like

Have you missed the comments about disabled people using public transport?

Ahh, @SimonJT it appears that you're labouring under the misapprehension that people with disabilities (like myself, or your partner) matter, have somewhere to be at specific times like a job or an important appointment, or even know what their own needs are if we're to take this thread seriously.

Able privilege is alive and well on mumsnet today, that's for sure.

They take up far too much room. They are too big for the average parking space, and people who drive them seem to often be shit at parking anyway, and leave them spread over 2 spaces. They are too wide for narrow lanes and roads. Tax the fuckers to Oblivion.

I drive a 4x4 and am not BU at all - between needing to drag a horse box about, needing to get to the horses in the shittest of weather, needing to get in and out of farms during shitey UK winters and needing space for the dogs, the DC, their cricket, rugby and kayaking shite I won't apologise one bit.

Should I drive a Yaris, choose my favourite DC and leave the other at home? We're not city based but when we drive to visit family in central London (a couple of times a month) I often drive because I love my car. I also love how safe I feel, and have never driven like a dick in my life so am no more of a threat than the next driver.

Free country innit

There's no such thing as a free country

I personally don't like them, none of your business what other people buy with their money though.

It is if it impacts my quality of life or damages my health

@Orangesox

I get what you’re saying, and any system set up to allow people to be exempt should be as simple, fair and efficient as possible. I don’t have all the answers right now but it’s obvious that certain groups of people would need to be consulted to make sure of it that it would be.

It would be no easy feat for sure, I’d probably want to gradually ease into it over a decade or so the problems can be identified and ironed out gradually but I definitely think it’s a good goal. As long as the investment in infrastructure and supporting systems is there.

@Orangesox

Ahh, *@SimonJT* it appears that you're labouring under the misapprehension that people with disabilities (like myself, or your partner) matter, have somewhere to be at specific times like a job or an important appointment, or even know what their own needs are if we're to take this thread seriously.

Able privilege is alive and well on mumsnet today, that's for sure.

I always forget how ableist MN is.

Have you missed the comments about disabled people using public transport?

Yes this would be another advantage. Public transport would become even more accessible to the disabled.

Or if not possible to adapt PT for certain disabilities, there could be some kind of subsidy for taking a specialised taxi

@fishonabicycle

They take up far too much room. They are too big for the average parking space, and people who drive them seem to often be shit at parking anyway, and leave them spread over 2 spaces. They are too wide for narrow lanes and roads. Tax the fuckers to Oblivion.

Your post is full of so many misconceptions and generalisations. They take up one parking space fine. So you think disabled people should have to pay more tax? People who require larger cars for their work or possibly to travel around rural roads which are difficult to manage in a smaller car, they should also be taxed more?