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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to work without pay...

112 replies

Untilsummer · 31/05/2020 06:52

Morning, I've NCd as this is quite detailed and I don't want to be recognised.

So I'm a teacher, who lives in Wales but works in England. Wales is still in lockdown and schools haven't re-opened.

I'm due to return to work next week when my school re-opens. I'll be doing the childcare element with a TA as well as delivering online lessons to my class throughout the day.

Now due to my nursery being closed, I cannot come to work one day a week as I'll have no childcare. My HT has been aware of this for a few weeks. I can still do my virtual lessons from home, like I have been doing but I wont be physically able to come into school.

My HT has told me that I'll have to take these days as unpaid leave. AIBU to then turn around and say that I won't be doing any work on said day then? Including the virual lessons, giving feedback, answering parent/child queries, setting home tasks?

Surely I can't be expected to be work from home unpaid when this is what I've been doing for the past x weeks?

OP posts:
justmyview · 31/05/2020 10:45

Are you sure your HT is expecting you to work on your days off? I would have thought unpaid leave = no work, no salary

bonsaidragon · 31/05/2020 10:47

@user1487194234

Public sector has s highly unionised
All school staff are recommended to join a union. Not because they are anticipating problems but because if allegations are made against you then you are on your own unless you are in a union.
user1487194234 · 31/05/2020 10:51

I think unions are excellent

notchickenagain · 31/05/2020 10:53

To reply to a previous poster, they won't spend the money they save on a replacement teacher, they will expect the TA to take the bubble on her/his own to preserve the integrity of the bubble.

Aesopfable · 31/05/2020 11:02

@notchickenagain

To reply to a previous poster, they won't spend the money they save on a replacement teacher, they will expect the TA to take the bubble on her/his own to preserve the integrity of the bubble.
What integrity? These children have siblings in other classes and the children in those classes have siblings in further classes.
Walkaround · 31/05/2020 11:12

RandomLondoner - academies do also have to recognise unions and comply with employment law. Their governing bodies don’t have to take advice from the Local Authority, though, which is the usual employer of staff in maintained schools. I have experience of a school where staff would not do as they were told and this was 100% a consequence of the poor school leadership and complete lack of trust between staff and headteacher. I also experienced the consequences for the subsequent headteacher, who had to repair the damage. It took a while to rebuild tryst, but nobody had to leave the school in order to do so, and nobody had to be threatened that the school might just academise because it thought they might be easier to sack that way if they didn’t just do as they were told.

notchickenagain · 31/05/2020 11:12

That's how the bubbles are supposed to work, otherwise everyone would be back straight away. Regardless, the TA, as usual, will be expected to be a teacher for no extra pay.

gottastopeatingchocolate · 31/05/2020 11:14

Sorry, OP, can you explain the problem?

Is it that you want to be able to WFH, rather than take unpaid leave?

Or that you think you are expected to work while on leave? That doesn't sound right - have they specifically said they expect you to work on your leave days? Why would they call it leave then?

cansu · 31/05/2020 11:20

@Aesopfable
Given that someone has to do the online learning for the children who aren't yet in school, the suggestion that the OP work from home to provide this is not such a mad idea! In the school where I work, we are following the govment advice to allow those who can work from home to do so. Those that are shielding or have vulnerable family members or have young children whose childcare remains closed are doing that part of the job. The school must provide remote learning; this can be done from home. Those that are able to be in school are providing the face to face classroom teaching. They cannot do both classroom teaching with a group all day and set, mark work and respond to queries online at the same time. The OP's headteacher needs to think about what message he is giving to staff and also about the best outcomes for the children.

Phineyj · 31/05/2020 12:01

Union membership is 29% for workers with degree, 31% for those with any HE qual, 48% for education, 55% for women, higher for older than younger workers and the lowest membership rates are in the south and east of England.

So it depends a great deal on who you are and what you do.

Phineyj · 31/05/2020 12:02

OP, get advice in the Staffroom as this is a very specific situation.

matchboxtwentyunwell · 31/05/2020 12:05

Regardless, the TA, as usual, will be expected to be a teacher for no extra pay.

This.

This is what I want the unions to take up seriously for once. It's bad enough during 'regular' school time when TAs are expected to work well above their pay grade like teachers and teach classes regularly ... but continued to get paid peanuts for it.

matchboxtwentyunwell · 31/05/2020 12:06

... oh and now putting their own health and families' health at risk for the 'privilege'.

Because you know some of those children are mixing with others outside of school. There will be no 'bubbles' with no mixing once they leave the building each day.

ilovemyrednosedaymug · 31/05/2020 12:15

If it's unpaid leave then you won't be working from home. You just need to clarify that point with him. Did the HT actually say that you would still be expected to deliver the lessons?

TheletterZ · 31/05/2020 13:05

It should properly mean no work, so no cover and no marking from that day. Otherwise you are still doing 5 days work just squishing it into 4 and only being paid for 4.

Talk to your HT and explain that, once they realise you’re serious then they might reconsider. If they think you will cave and do the cover and marking (think of the children) then there is no reason for them to change their mind.

Original poster
Untilsummer · 31/05/2020 13:13

Hi sorry I haven't disappeared, just been incredibly busy.

HT hasn't said directly that he expects me to work but messages suggests that he's expecting the virtual learning. You're right, I need to ask him to clarify/ask if there's cover.

My husband can look after DC the other days, he's swapped his hours around and done as much as he can. There's only one day that he can't budge on.

In term of expectations I either want
A) Work from home paid e.g. virtual lessons, planning and feedback from home.
B) Unpaid leave. I wont be working at all.

To the poster who thinks I should just do a bit extra as most people do. Every teacher I know does this. I'd say at least 1/4 of the work teachers do is unpaid. Do you really think we plan/mark/create IEPs/decorate class room during our paid working ours? Hahaha!

OP posts:
Wattagoose90 · 31/05/2020 13:20

Have you explored all childcare options such as an alternative nursery or childminder?

Appreciate you probably don't want to expose your child any more than necessary, but there are lots of childminders who may not have any other children at the moment.

If you've explored all options and you really can't source childcare for that day, then no, I think you'd be daft to work when you're not being paid for it.

On the other hand, if you can't meet the needs of the school by being there, I appreciate why they'd ask you to take unpaid leave instead of paying you to work from home. They need to be fair to their other staff who may have made difficult choices to send their own kids to childcare too.

Original poster
Untilsummer · 31/05/2020 13:27

No I won't be putting my DC in a new, unfamiliar setting with strangers for the sake of 6 days. I'm not risking her health and upsetting her for me to go and babysit other people's children.

OP posts:
Wattagoose90 · 31/05/2020 13:44

Sounds like unpaid and not working from home that day is the way to go then. I don't think you can complain if your colleagues are making the sacrificies that you're not willing to; and just to clairify- I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying that if you have colleagues who also haven't been given the option to work from home with their kids, it wouldn't be fair to treat you differently.

Boulshired · 31/05/2020 13:45

I can see why you are clashing with your headteacher after the babysitting comments.

Original poster
Untilsummer · 31/05/2020 13:50

Of course I haven't made the babysitting comments to my HT but that's essentially what I'd be doing in school.

My years group isn't returning so I'll be in a room with 10 key worker's children, looking after them. I won't be teaching them just supervising. So yes it's pretty much babysitting.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 31/05/2020 13:57

did the HT explicitly say you would have to work on those days?

IndecentFeminist · 31/05/2020 14:15

It is babysitting right now to be fair.

Tinytinytiny · 31/05/2020 14:16

Don't work without pay.

Clavinova · 31/05/2020 14:25

I'd say at least 1/4 of the work teachers do is unpaid.

Not 'unpaid' - included in your annual salary;

^"51.7. In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and
assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils."^

"51.8.The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours referred to in paragraph 51.7 must be worked or when these hours must be worked."

So the OP takes unpaid leave and does no work at all (as is her right).The unanswered emails, uploaded work to mark etc don't go away

It may be more convenient for you to complete those tasks on the unpaid day - or on another day. I wouldn't expect you to deliver 'live lessons' on your unpaid day - what form do your 'virtual lessons' take?