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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To refuse to work without pay...

112 replies

Untilsummer · 31/05/2020 06:52

Morning, I've NCd as this is quite detailed and I don't want to be recognised.

So I'm a teacher, who lives in Wales but works in England. Wales is still in lockdown and schools haven't re-opened.

I'm due to return to work next week when my school re-opens. I'll be doing the childcare element with a TA as well as delivering online lessons to my class throughout the day.

Now due to my nursery being closed, I cannot come to work one day a week as I'll have no childcare. My HT has been aware of this for a few weeks. I can still do my virtual lessons from home, like I have been doing but I wont be physically able to come into school.

My HT has told me that I'll have to take these days as unpaid leave. AIBU to then turn around and say that I won't be doing any work on said day then? Including the virual lessons, giving feedback, answering parent/child queries, setting home tasks?

Surely I can't be expected to be work from home unpaid when this is what I've been doing for the past x weeks?

OP posts:

AnneElliott · 31/05/2020 09:42

I'm not a teacher op do I don't understand how it works with directed time etc, but certainly I wouldn't expect any of my team to work if they were on unpaid leave.

I agree you should clarify with the HT. as childcare is an issue, can you try and see if there is a nursery in England that would take your child as you are a key worker?

I imagine the HT is being consistent to guard against piss takers (not saying that's you op). I know that I often have to apply blanket rules to guard against those that take the mick - there are always a small minority that spoil it for everyone else.

AnneElliott · 31/05/2020 09:45

That's interesting Marie. I was a school governor for a short time and I was shocked at some of the practices I witnessed. Certainly they wouldn't have been tolerated in the civil service - which often has a reputation for inefficiency!

However mine was an academy - think they have both positives and negatives and very much depends on the leadership of the trust.

cansu · 31/05/2020 09:48

That is ridiculous. It is also unfair to penalise you for this problem. You are able to work from home on that day and he should be able to be flexible. You need to email to say that you are requesting to work from home on that day due to circumstances outside of your control related to the coronavirus crisis. If he comes back to say that this is not possible and you will have to take unpaid leave, you need to approach your union.

Appuskidu · 31/05/2020 09:52

Are you only contracted to work one day a week, @Untilsummer

Or are you full time but there is one day a week which you have no childcare for?

Walkaround · 31/05/2020 09:53

MarieG10 - you have just proved poor staff relations has nothing to do with the school not being an academy!! Academising the school will not improve the lousy relationship between the new HT and their staff.

Pinkblueberry · 31/05/2020 09:55

YANBU at all. I work in a PPA role and have always had time allocated for my own PPA outside of school hours - paid. Being classed as WFH (as I am for 1.5 hours a week when school is running normally) means you continue to get paid - coronavirus or no coronavirus. Working from home for free is not a thing, not in any industry. Your headteacher is being ridiculous.

donquixotedelamancha · 31/05/2020 09:57

I wouldn't call in the unions confused what other profession goes running to unions rather than just address it like an adult.

Anyone who is in a union. What is the point of being in one if you aren't goign to go to them for employment advice?

SummerDayWinterEvenings · 31/05/2020 09:58

Several options.

1 Union

Say absolutely you will take unpaid leave BUT you will not be doing or providing work for the day you aren't working
If you are ill or signed off with stress -you won't be working anyways.

curtainsforme · 31/05/2020 10:02

@SummerDayWinterEvenings

Come back and answer the question as to whether this is an assumption you have made or if you have been told you have to work

OpenWheelRace · 31/05/2020 10:03

If you are unable to work because you cannot get childcare - then you don't get paid for those days.
If your job requires you to be on site, and you cannot be on site - then you are not working, and therefore don't get paid.

I think you're both right here?

He's right in saying that if you cannot come into work, you don't get paid.
You are right in saying that if the days are unpaid, then you won't be working from home.

He doesn't appear to have said that you can continue to work from home - so I don't see the issue.

OpenWheelRace · 31/05/2020 10:04

It is also unfair to penalise you for this problem

Well, to be fair - childcare is not the employers concern. They pay her to do a job. If she cannot do the job because of childcare, that's her burden not the employers surely?

A little leeway is always nice, but I'm guessing the employer is already up to their eyeballs in problems right now.

bonsaidragon · 31/05/2020 10:05

You are not being unreasonable in the current circumstances given your child isn't school age so therefore can't go as a key worker child.

My son's HT has been taking he pre-school child to school with her when she has had to work, so have some of the teachers.

Phineyj · 31/05/2020 10:20

As a teacher, the issue generally is that if you don't go into school you still have to work anyway.

So the OP takes unpaid leave and does no work at all (as is her right). The unanswered emails, uploaded work to mark etc don't go away - they just sit there for her to deal with on the evening before her next working day. She would probably also have to set her own cover for her classes she misses (it takes longer to explain what to do to someone else than to do it yourself and there probably won't be anyone available anyway) and will have to mark any work students do on that day.

So the work will have to be done unpaid, which is why the Head's solution is not that sensible.

matchboxtwentyunwell · 31/05/2020 10:23

Just don't work that day. If your HT says something to you about it (ex, why aren't you providing on line learning?), then you remind her you've been place on unpaid leave for that day by your HT, and that obviously means you're on leave and not working.

HT would be unreasonable to expect you to work if you're not being paid.

Pinkblueberry · 31/05/2020 10:24

Well, to be fair - childcare is not the employers concern. They pay her to do a job. If she cannot do the job because of childcare, that's her burden not the employers surely?

In normal times I would agree, but I think things are a little different right now. Lack of childcare is definitely taken into account where I work - my Headteacher also has young children, so is very understanding. OPs headteacher is just being obtuse - they can clearly manage without her in school teaching as they’re not being insistent about her finding a way to come in - just refusing to pay her for doing her work at home. It doesn’t sound like they’re going to use the money saved to pay for a replacement. If you can still be of use working from home then you should be paid. If they want to give her unpaid leave they shouldn’t expect any work to be done by her.

Randomnessembraced · 31/05/2020 10:26

If you are not paid for 1 day you shouldn’t work on that day. But could you help and set work for that day in advance? What do you teach? My son’s teacher uploads everything for the week ahead of time. On the days she is with key worker children she doesn’t login to mark the work. It is a difficult situation for all schools and if everyone helps each other out then the atmosphere will be nicer. In my children’s schools everyone is trying to help each other out as much as possible. Does your head need to get a supply teacher in for the day you can’t come in? If he does, he simply won’t have the money to pay you? So is it a genuine budget issue?

matchboxtwentyunwell · 31/05/2020 10:30

I'm a school governor and what our head has had to wrestle with are:

Staff refusing to send their kids to school as key workers, therefore refusing to come to work. They still expect to be paid.

Staff refusing to return their own children to school so state they can only work x hours which they dictate. This is despite their role being required full time and they expect to continue to be paid full time.

Staff stating they are in the vulnerable category although haven't been defined as such and refusing to come to work but expecting to be paid full salary. They haven't submitted a sick note.

We have all of this in our school as well.

OldEvilOwl · 31/05/2020 10:34

Have they said they expect you to work on the day your taking leave or are you just assuming? I would assume your not working on that day

RandomLondoner · 31/05/2020 10:35

FFS - all professions have unions, because they're adults in a job. How unutterably wanky to liken it to running to mummy.

A quick google tells me just under 1 in 4 workers are in a union, so it is very much a minority. Actually I was surprised the figure was that high, I would have guessed about 10%. I've never heard unions mentioned by anyone at work in 35 years of working in the UK.

Aesopfable · 31/05/2020 10:36

You are able to work from home on that day and he should be able to be flexible

The job requires her to be at work. Childcare is not an employers problem.

Aesopfable · 31/05/2020 10:39

It doesn’t sound like they’re going to use the money saved to pay for a replacement.

Are you assuming all the kids in her class will be sent home from school on the days op doesn’t have childcare?

Moondust001 · 31/05/2020 10:40

I do not see the headteacher saying that you are expected to work on a day of unpaid leave. It seems to be you that expect to be paid to look after your own child and work from home at the same time. Something that many, many employers will not permit on safety (for your child) grounds.

I appreciate that things have been, and continue to be, disrupted. But you are being unreasonable in expecting to be paid when you aren't doing your job. Your job, in these circumstances, is now on the school premises and not staying at home.

user1487194234 · 31/05/2020 10:41

Public sector has s highly unionised

RandomLondoner · 31/05/2020 10:44

you have just proved poor staff relations has nothing to do with the school not being an academy!! Academising the school will not improve the lousy relationship between the new HT and their staff.

I'm going to take a wild guess that the reason academising might improve staff relations is that it will make it easier to get rid of staff with whom one has poor relations. Knowing this might might improve the attitudes of some, making getting rid of them unnecessary.

Statistically, one can improve the average staff relationship by deleting the relationships that are bringing down the average!

So I think you're wrong that it won't improve things. (Assumes I'm right in thinking it is easier for academies to hire and fire, and that they have more freedom in designing contracts.)

user1487194234 · 31/05/2020 10:44

Well, to be fair - childcare is not the employers concern. They pay her to do a job. If she cannot do the job because of childcare, that's her burden not the employers surely?
This
We have been in contact unprecedented times but it increasingly it's going to be a case of work your hours or don't get paid ,and perhaps lose your job

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