to think this about working from home

[peperethecat]

I've been wondering whether more companies moving towards working from home will create more of a divide between the haves and the have nots.

If employers use Covid-19 as a reason to downsize their office space and have more people working from home, they will achieve cost savings but I doubt these will translate into pay rises for their employees. At the same time, the gap between salaries and the cost of living is constantly rising, and lots of people just can't afford to live in large homes with enough space to work from home properly.

Working from home is one thing when you are in your 50s and own a nice house with an office or a spare room that can be repurposed, but if you're a young couple with a baby who live in a one bedroom flat because that's all you can afford, or you're in your 20s and single and renting a room in a shared house and the only work surface is the communal dining table, working from home is very complicated, especially if more than one person in the same household needs to do it.

AIBU to think that working from home just isn't a good long term option for people who aren't lucky enough to have a decent sized, comfortable and quiet home?

I totally agree. DH has an office in the house. as he works from home all the time. I’m in the living room and finding it really hard to focus in a multi-use space - can’t wait to get back in the office. And I know I’m much luckier than most. It will really alter how we look at housing if a lot of people need to work from home - but on the other hand, most people can’t afford to get a house big enough for everyone to have proper space to work. It’s nice for people to have the option to work from home if they want it, but very difficult if people are forced into it.

I suppose we will just have to adjust if that is the case. Even at uni when I shared a house and had a small room, I had a desk in it although right now I think a comfortable and supportive chair is more important.

I agree Sunbathing... I am trying to buy said comfortable and supportive chair..any recommendations?

Working from home doesn't have to mean actual home, least not where I work. So long as i can get a connection it can be wherever (long term WFH er)

I've WFH'd from cafes, the beach, a local beauty spot, numerous park benches etc. Keeps it varied particularly in the summer months, when I dont want to be confined to the house.

Laughing at the thought of dh setting up his laptop and 2 large monitors on the beach.

Which cafes are you currently working in, @CloudsCanLookLikeSheep?

Clouds said she was a long term WFH'er so is probably referring to "normal" times.

I agree OP. I also think London weighting will be phased out.

I don't actually remember whether I had a desk in my bedroom when I was at university or not, except in halls when my room was furnished and I definitely did. I do remember that at university I spent a lot of time working in the library though.

I think if I was renting a room in a shared house - especially if it was a small room - I would really resent having to furnish it with office furniture at my own expense and lose floor space that I might want for something else. If that one room was the only space I had to myself, I wouldn't want to be effectively giving two square metres of it to my employer for free.

But what's the alternative? Slouching in bed with your laptop? Very bad for your back.

I'm lucky in that we recently bought a flat and I'm the only person here during the day so I can just use the dining table, so working from home isn't a problem for me. But in my last couple of rented places, or when I was living with my parents, it would have been much more difficult to work from home on a regular basis.

I bought one of these chairs at the start of the lockdown and it has saved my back.

www.amazon.co.uk/Ergonomic-Kneeling-Orthopedic-Relieving-Improving/dp/B07TXHMQW4/ref=sr_1_56?dchild=1&keywords=ergonomic+chair&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1590671082&sr=8-56

My DH firm have found it’s the younger employees who want to go back in the office. Senior management want to stay wfh. This is in London. So lots of the younger employees will be in flat shares and as the @peperethecat says, wouldn’t be ideal for working. Also there’s a big social element.

Senior management tend to live out of London - long commutes/associated childcare costs and so are happy to continue wfh.

@CloudsCanLookLikeSheep

Working from home doesn't have to mean actual home, least not where I work. So long as i can get a connection it can be wherever (long term WFH er)

I've WFH'd from cafes, the beach, a local beauty spot, numerous park benches etc. Keeps it varied particularly in the summer months, when I dont want to be confined to the house.

I agree to a point, I’m a long term WFH-er and have worked in my garden and in cafes before but a lot of people will not be able to do this due to GDPR and information security policies. It depends what work you’re doing as to whether this could be acceptable or very risky.

I agree to a point too, I have worked from home for years and have space to do so. But now DH is at home too, and potentially DS for some time yet as well, we need more space and are looking at having a garden office installed. Not everyone has a spare £10K to spend on a garden pod (though you can have a glorified shed version which is about £3K , but even so, way outside many budgets).

The good thing is that co-working places and libraries should reopen in time and that will open up better (and cheap or free) working options for people who don't have the space at home.

I did have a desk in my bedroom at uni but preferred the library in my first year, I revised at home in my 2nd and final years.

I have never wanted to wfh and ten weeks of it has just reinforced that!

I’m luckier now in that I have my own flat, I would have really struggled in years gone by when I was in a tiny studio flat or in a house share. But still my flat is too small for a proper desk and multiple monitors that would make life easier.

Never wanted a garden before lockdown! Never really longed for a big house either, but I find I desperate wish I had one now, or even a little house with a spare room I could have as an officer.

I live on a narrowboat which is positively tiny compared to a normal house and both DH and I work at home full time. Under normal circumstances we both wouldn't be at home all the time and we can use cafes, libraries, and shared offices in the big cities but under lockdown things are a little tighter.

I don't see the logic in your argument of highlighting the have and have nots. The amount of space you have doesn't really put you at a disadvantage if you're working remotely. I'd say wifi speeds is the biggest headache for most remote workers.

I totally agree. DH has an office in the house. as he works from home all the time. I’m in the living room and finding it really hard to focus in a multi-use space - can’t wait to get back in the office.

That is our usual set up (it is my office) but we now agree each day who has the office-usually when in lengthy calls. We often swap at lunchtime. Sounds like your DH is a bit selfish?

DD moves out tomorrow and a second office is arriving on Monday.

Totally understand this point of view. Personally I enjoy seeing people and working outside of my home even though I have a very comfortable place to work.it is good for my mental health to work somewhere else and then return home to relax. When I was at uni I used to enjoy going to work in the library for the social side of it plus I liked separating work from my bedroom. That could be a possibility in the future if workplaces are a lot more flexible though - we could have more space in public libraries opening up for working adults. I’d enjoy that and then people could choose to work in the library or at home.

The amount of space you have doesn't really put you at a disadvantage if you're working remotely.

I think it does. My point is that when everyone comes into the office they are all equal in terms of the physical conditions they are working in (although not all equal in other respects, e.g. commute).

When everyone is working from home because they have to rather than because they want to, some people (generally the richer/older/more senior ones) are more likely to have a space in their home which is conducive to working. Other people who live in smaller, more cramped spaces, and particularly in house sharing situations, don't always have space to work at home. And if that means that in a non lockdown situation they have to find somewhere else to work, which isn't always straightforward. You can't sit in a cafe and hog a table for an entire day without continuously spending money, and you can't do a conference call in a cafe or a library.

@meninsuits - that's what we do too. I start early instead and make use of the dual monitor set up as I need that more than DH. We swap over lunchtime nor early afternoon so he gets a quieter area for calls.
Generally we are okay as DH has downstairs, the DTs have the first floor and I'm out the way at the top.

But it could also eventually minimise the premiums people pay for living near good commuting routes, easy access to big cities etc. You can live in the sticks where it's a bit cheaper - as long as there's strong WiFi you're good to go.

I'm a long term WFH, and love the benefits it gives me. An odd bit of social interaction would be good now and then though!

That is our usual set up (it is my office) but we now agree each day who has the office-usually when in lengthy calls. We often swap at lunchtime. Sounds like your DH is a bit selfish?

I agree, my DH has a lovely massive office that he’s actually vacated so I can use as due to the nature of our respective work it totally makes sense for me to use it.

Based on London WFH would save the average employer around 1,800 per employee per year. And the employee a minimum of 200pm and 2hrs per day on travel.

As you say you need space but long term this would allow a lot of people to rent or buy cheaper larger properties outside of regular commuting distance.

What I could see happening is employers offering an allowance for office costs that could either be spent on local hot desk hiring that would pop up if there was enough demand, or go towards renting a place with an office.

I have a big house and don't want to wfh. Most people in my office want to wfh when this is all over - that includes the younger staff members who are sharing.

It's the time and money spent on the commute (our office is in London and very few of our employees live in London) that is the key factor.

Well if everyone is permenantly working from home they can move to areas with more affordable housing and get a bigger space that way. It’s also completely unnecessary to have an office. Even in my office I don’t have an office (we hot desk so everything is on my laptop which I bring with me to work every day). We have a five bed house but don’t have an office. We have a desk in the playroom and a dining table in the dining room so DH and I can both WFH at the same time. To be honest I would prefer working in the dining room to a repurposing one of the bedrooms for instance. My boss WFH two days a week and also works in her dining room despite having an office in her house. I suppose lots of people must do it. Having an office is completely unnecessary when most work can be done using a laptop plus an iPad. If you’re a trader or sone kind of coder with many many screens yes I can see why you’d need a special space but the average office worker really doesn’t need that.

Yes, absolutely. A senior manager at my company posted a motivational video just after we went into lockdown. It was filmed in his dedicated home office, where he had a huge desk, lots of shelf space, a proper office chair, 2 monitors and a nice view over his garden. The gist of his talk was about how adjusting to working at home wasn't so bad and he was really seeing the benefits in it. Whilst some of his message was valid, it made lots of people in the the organisation who were (e.g.) working on the dining room table with their children and having to clear everything away every night, think that he just didn't really have a clue about how some employees were working. (And in fairness to said manager, in a subsequent message, he later acknowledged the practical difficulties that many were facing).

I need the social element of working in an office. I like to be around adults who are removed from my personal/ family life.

It's important for me to work part time and have a bit of time away from the house and kids!

I think it does. My point is that when everyone comes into the office they are all equal in terms of the physical conditions they are working in (although not all equal in other respects, e.g. commute).

Hardly, the amount of offices that have hot desking and massive open plan rooms with over 100 desks on top of each other compared to the boss who sits in the single corner office with a window.