to think this about working from home

[peperethecat]

I've been wondering whether more companies moving towards working from home will create more of a divide between the haves and the have nots.

If employers use Covid-19 as a reason to downsize their office space and have more people working from home, they will achieve cost savings but I doubt these will translate into pay rises for their employees. At the same time, the gap between salaries and the cost of living is constantly rising, and lots of people just can't afford to live in large homes with enough space to work from home properly.

Working from home is one thing when you are in your 50s and own a nice house with an office or a spare room that can be repurposed, but if you're a young couple with a baby who live in a one bedroom flat because that's all you can afford, or you're in your 20s and single and renting a room in a shared house and the only work surface is the communal dining table, working from home is very complicated, especially if more than one person in the same household needs to do it.

AIBU to think that working from home just isn't a good long term option for people who aren't lucky enough to have a decent sized, comfortable and quiet home?

@CovidicusRex I think you've just made my point for me there. Most people don't have a five bedroom house and a lot of people don't even have a dining table they can use, let alone a choice between a desk and a dining table.

I think a lot of bosses have literally no idea how some of their younger and less well off employees actually live.

Also, it won't be permanent WFH. For most people it'll be a day or two a week in the office hot desking, which means they still won't be able to live that far from the office, and their transport costs for that day or two a week will be disproportionately high if they commute by train.

Not sure what the relevance of being in your 50s is, versus being a‘ young couple‘ or in your 20s. Perhaps OP could elucidate as to how being in advanced in years magics up a home office.

I am in my 50s and working from my kitchen under less than ideal circumstances. I really don’t see how age has anything to do with it.

Hardly, the amount of offices that have hot desking and massive open plan rooms with over 100 desks on top of each other compared to the boss who sits in the single corner office with a window.

They all have a desk and a chair, at the very least, which isn't always the case at home.

Not sure what the relevance of being in your 50s is, versus being a‘ young couple‘ or in your 20s. Perhaps OP could elucidate as to how being in advanced in years magics up a home office.

I am in my 50s and working from my kitchen under less than ideal circumstances. I really don’t see how age has anything to do with it.

Being older makes it more likely that you will be living in your own home with space to work, not in a cramped rented flat or with housemates. I accept that this isn't going to be universally the case, but 50 year olds were much more likely to be buying their first homes 25 years ago than the average 25 year old is today, and have had more chance to move up the ladder since then. I don't think this is a particularly controversial point.

I think companies will outsource as much as they can to places where lower pay is acceptable if WFH permanently becomes a thing.

But you’re a OP three times mentions age. Why not just mention some people have home office space and some don’t?

Choosing a living space with an office it’s not necessarily a have or have not decision

*your

50s and up are also much more likely to have a spare room because of children growing up and leaving home (even if only for university terms)

But you’re a OP three times mentions age. Why not just mention some people have home office space and some don’t?

Choosing a living space with an office it’s not necessarily a have or have not decision

You can't choose space you can't afford, that is the point. Most people have as much space as their budget allows.

I've WFH'd from cafes, the beach, a local beauty spot, numerous park benches etc. Keeps it varied particularly in the summer months, when I dont want to be confined to the house.

I have worked from home, self employed for the past 12 years and no way could I ever work in a cafe or a "beauty spot'.

I just managed when the kids were little. I worked at night when they were in bed.

I am loving working from home and would like to do it, for me, indefinitely. I wouldn't mind 1-2 days a week in the office but I would find it really hard now to go back full time. I have no children, live with one other adult, have a comfortable home and money to buy a better office chair/desk if I want to. I'm saving a shed load of money from not having to buy lunches or the fuel for two hours of communiting every day. I also get to stay in bed two hours longer in the morning.

One of my team is in a flat share where her bedroom isn't big enough for a desk and she isn't comfortable enough with her housemates to sit in shared areas. She wants to go back to the office and I think the company should facilitate that.

@Pacmanitee oh wow that’s such a scary thought!

Most people have as much space as their budget allows

Where is your evidence for that assertion?

Certainly individuals could’ve chosen a different type of house or location had they known at the point of purchase that WFH would be necessary. Unfortunately, we don’t have the benefit of hindsight.

Playing devil’s advocate, those “lucky” enough to be renting could take the opportunity at the end of their lease to move out of their current arrangements into something more appropriate. Those in London could potentially move further out and save money that way.

@AnnaBanana333 Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

@peperethecat it’s like you didn’t read what I said at all. Even with the option we’ve chosen to integrate our home working into our house rather than create a separate space for it. We could just as easily put a desk in our bedroom or use a lap desk in bed. There simply isn’t a need for lots of space when you wfh because offices that set you up to wfh normally just give you the one lap top to deal with. It’s just not necessary. I think you’re also really pushing this have/have nots business. WFH policies save less affluent workers a lot of time and money commuting. They can also save significant childcare costs.

Yes @CovidicusRex, you've chosen to do that because it works for you, and because living in a large house gives you choices, whereas living in a studio or a house share does not.

We could just as easily put a desk in our bedroom or use a lap desk in bed.

But there are people like my colleague who have no room for a desk, and if she gets a lap desk she's still sitting on a bed all day which is terrible for her back. It's easy to say she can move to somewhere with a larger bedroom, but not to easy to actually do when you live in London on an average salary.

Even if she did move and managed to find a HMO with a big bedroom (and the associated high cost for the room) she will still have no control over her roommates, who dictate her working conditions.

You must see that working from home is a lot more pleasant for me than for her, and it's all because of our relative wages and homes?

Agree Op, which is why dh and I bought a house with a large granny annexe .
This has proved to be a life line and we are able to work from home quite comfortably.

I completely agree - we literally left our small London flat and moved in with my parents in their 5 bed house precisely because we didn’t have space for three of us to be working from home. It would be ok in house shares I guess if everyone else wasn’t working from home so you could use the dining table, but as soon as more than one of you is at home it’s a real barrier. We have a nice flat but there’s still no room for a desk in our bedroom once we have a bed, a big wardrobe and drawers. And if you have jobs where you are both on laptops the whole time that’s fine, but have you ever tried taking a phone/video call in a room where someone 3ft away from you is also taking a phone call? My DH has a very loud voice and if I’m also on a call it’s impossible to concentrate and everyone else can also hear what he’s saying...

I literally have colleagues using ironing boards in bedrooms with £10 ikea dining chairs as they are in tiny London house shares - do you think that’s sustainable for their backs?

It’s not that you need a beautiful separate home office, but at least a separate room per person with a proper desk, chair, monitor and WiFi, which is clearly going to be easier for wealthier individuals.

Some of the replies here are being purposely obtuse. Are people really denying that people in their 50s are less likely to be in a house share than someone in their 20s?

I think some are wed to the "We're all in it together" nature of lockdown and think it is some great leveller. It isn't. I work at a university and for every one of my students happily sat in their private bedroom on their own laptop, there are several others having to do everything via their mobile phone in a bedroom they share with several siblings.

@peperethecat

I don't actually remember whether I had a desk in my bedroom when I was at university or not, except in halls when my room was furnished and I definitely did. I do remember that at university I spent a lot of time working in the library though.

I think if I was renting a room in a shared house - especially if it was a small room - I would really resent having to furnish it with office furniture at my own expense and lose floor space that I might want for something else. If that one room was the only space I had to myself, I wouldn't want to be effectively giving two square metres of it to my employer for free.

But what's the alternative? Slouching in bed with your laptop? Very bad for your back.

I'm lucky in that we recently bought a flat and I'm the only person here during the day so I can just use the dining table, so working from home isn't a problem for me. But in my last couple of rented places, or when I was living with my parents, it would have been much more difficult to work from home on a regular basis.

I bought one of these chairs at the start of the lockdown and it has saved my back.

]]

If you have a wfh contract, then part of that will include an allowance to purchase what's required. There maybe tie ons to having to refund some of the costs if you leave in certain time frames though. Fwiw, I wfh, have a modest home, the location of my desk and style of desk were part of my consideration as it's not in a dedicated office. The benefits of the job, far out weigh the hassle of the equipment and desk. Like pp stated, the I too can work pretty much anywhere, just need WiFi access. Far outweighs commutes, car maintenance costs etc.

Also, depending on role, not all office paraphernalia will be required, such as phones, multiple screens, printers. So that reduces the space needed.
You can get great fold down tables, I actually use one, so that come Christmas and the summer I fold it all away.

Yes. We have two adults and one child working off one communal dining table. You're completely right OP. Not sure what the solution is though. Companies will save a lot of money in rent etc and this saving won't be passed onto the employee. Working from home outside of lockdown if mandatory, will cause a lot of stress to many people.

I've WFH for 6 years and agree completely. While a 5 bed house isn't necessary (my husband and I are both WFH in a 2 bed rental), you do need dedicated space if it's going to be an ongoing thing. It doesn't need to be super expensive - I have a £50 chair and £20 table from IKEA - but it needs to have the right atmosphere to enable you to be productive.

It absolutely is tougher on people in house shares and in smaller properties. We chose a place where there was enough room for 1 person to comfortably work from home (it's harder with the two of us), but not everyone can do this!