That everybody seems to be acting like it's over?

[Twinklelittlestar1]

I don't get it. We had more deaths yesterday than the day we went into lockdown. Everyone is acting like Covid has gone away and so many people seem to naively think the government easing things is because the situation is magically going away now rather than driven by their economic priorities. We already have the second highest death rate it the WORLD yet it seems lots of people are desensitised to hearing about people dying now. I get that everyone wants to 'think positively' and feel like things are getting better but I feel like people are naively celebrating the governments easing of lockdowns with such faith rather than caution.

It does seem this way. I was shocked by the pictures of beaches in England on Bank Holiday. Just because they can go to the beach, it seems they have forgotten or no longer care about this virus going around. You wouldn't get me on one of those beaches if you paid me, and if I'm being honest, if some of them were to catch the virus through their own stupidity, then I have no sympathy. I bet it was some of those parents on the beach with their children who were moaning about the schools reopening too soon.

Wales is pretty much still in full lockdown, you wouldn't think it though with the amount of people everywhere. With the death toll rising considerably again yesterday, possibly because of VE day, I think we're in for another shock when the fugues come in in 2 weeks time. I'm just sitting back letting them all get on with it. Yes I am truly fed up now of lockdown, but I'd rather that than end up in hospital or dead.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-infection-rate-too-high-second-wave

So what do you propose OP? We shut down the economy for even longer? Everyone sits in their houses for months on end? Children go months without seeing other children or without any access to education?

We can't stay locked up forever. The economy needs to get moving - the economic casualties of this will be far worse than the number of deaths from COVID.

@irregularegular there have also been articles about the Oxford vaccine project leader saying that they believe there isn't enough community infection to test the vaccine.

There are so many contradictory reports out there that nothing is certain.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

What a great post.

The only thing about it I didn't understand was TLDR
What IS that?

I just can’t get stressed about the beaches! We are worrying about the wrong things.
Beaches are outdoors, they are sat close and I wouldn’t fancy it but we know the virus spreads mainly indoors, in restaurants where people are sat in one room for a long time, amongst households and offices.

@wonkytonkwoman Too long; didn't read

I realised how long I'd banged on for when I was about to hit post!

I did watch an interview with the CEO of Roche the vaccine company. He did say their was a race against time for them as there is dwindling spread in the community and they may not be able to test the vaccine properly because of this.

I am under no illusions about the numbers.

However, the virus is here now. We cannot stay in lockdown indefinitely in the faint hope of a vaccine. Lockdown has achieved what it was meant to, which is that the NHS has not been overwhelmed. We now have to move forward and work out ways to co-exist with the virus. This will mean some fundamental changes to the way we work and live, but it is utterly ridiculous to expect that we stay confined to our homes indefinitely. We need to begin to work with more nuanced risk assessments, looking at localised lockdowns and targeted protection of the most vulnerable.

There not their

Really excellent post from @Iwalkinmyclothing. I totally agree. (But I don’t know what TLDR means either!)

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Lots of reasons. (This is a very TLDR post!!)

1. The 'lockdown' way of life is unnatural for most of us, difficult for many of us, dangerous for some of us, causing significant harm to some of us. It was always going to be difficult to get the entire population to abide by the restrictions in place for an extended period of time. I know common responses to this are to scoff that ^all you are being asked to do is stay home it's not much of a hardship", but I am tired of that line of argument. Sure, not a hardship for some people, but a real hardship with real negative effects for many, whose right to wellbeing and safety are as important as anyone else's.

1. People are reassessing the risk. There are people like me who have continued to attend work as normal throughout lockdown, been exposed repeatedly to risk situations, had colleagues and service users contract the virus, etc, and not been noticeably ill themselves. It is hard to remain terrified and sure that if someone breathes near you in a supermarket you will die when you have been in close contact with people who within a few days have been confirmed to have c19 and not been ill. It is hard to remain terrified when colleagues with serious health conditions have had c19 and recovered. It is hard to remain terrified when you are not in a high risk group and you are aware that the rate of deaths for people outwith these groups is very, very low indeed.

1. Economic necessity. People need to get back to work, and again, I am tired of the sneering about how there are more important things than money. Because you need money to access essentials, like housing, utilities, food, clothing. And we need to limit the collapse of businesses and surge in unemployment.

1. Recognition that there may well not be a vaccine or effective treatment for a very long time, if at all, and that it is just not possible to suspend normal life entirely whilst we wait for one.

1. Being so damned tired of being afraid and anxious and miserable, that anything that suggests things are improving is grasped and held onto.

1. Remembering that the point of the lockdown was never to ensure no one got the virus, but to manage the rate at which the virus spread so that the NHS did not get overwhelmed. I'm not sure when that became "everyone must stay inside or people will die". People will die. It is a fact. It is a horrible, saddening fact, but it's unavoidable.

1. An unwillingness to continue to abide by inconveniencing restrictions in order to protect others. Which understandably makes many people very, very angry, but should not make them surprised. Humans make selfish decisions all the time. Look at the rates of consumption in the West: we know many of our habits and choices directly contribute to climate change, we know climate change leads to death and destruction and horrible suffering on a wide scale, but we continue to make those choices. We know fast fashion is only possible because of the horrific exploitation of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people in developing nations. We know the mainstream meat and dairy industries cause enormous suffering, that animals live horror film existences so we can overconsume cheap meat. I could go on and on, but my point is, why, when our norm is to make selfish choices that have enormous negative impacts on others, would we suddenly act differently now?

Absolutely. Brilliant post. So very sane and humane.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Bloody brilliant post! very well explained and sums up many of our thoughts exactly 👍🏻

@Littlebopeep123 i would have done exactly the same

For many people the lock down type of life is worst for their health than actually getting the virus. Suicides/domestic abuse/dwindling mental health/lack of getting checked for cancer/other illnesses etc.

I think people realise that they need to balance their own risk since if they lock down forever as some would want then the economy/jobs/money will be gone. The more people know about their chance of dying if young and fit the less they will worry long term. People cannot lock away forever, more people die in road accidents and suicides than from covid in the fit and healthy each year.

Whee government advisers/MP's celebrities/ other people with more than one home can be seen to be doing their own thing whilst the rest are being told to lock away is it any surprise people have had enough coupled with actual data that shows how unlikely most people are to die from it.....

You cannot look at one days stats in isolation. There is normally a few days lag over the weekend in reporting and there was a bank holiday on Monday. We had about 3 or 4 days of under 200 a day deaths and the new cases (which is the figure which matters) is on a downward trajectory on the curve. The 412 deaths are not all happening on one day, they were just reported yesterday. Also the deaths are from people infected some weeks ago so you need to take that with a pinch of salt.

You are right though in that this is not over and we all have to take educated risks according to our vulnerability factor now as this virus is not going away completely. So I do sympathise with people who have now started to get back to something like normal. We live in an area with a low rate of the virus so I think we are ready for some further easing of restrictions. As childminders are now working we are now babysitting our grandchildren so our daughter and son in law can work at home without having to watch 2 pre schoolers at the same time.

IWALKINMYCLOTHING - I should have read your post before I posted. You summed it all up. I particularly like the section

"2. People are reassessing the risk. There are people like me who have continued to attend work as normal throughout lockdown, been exposed repeatedly to risk situations, had colleagues and service users contract the virus, etc, and not been noticeably ill themselves. It is hard to remain terrified and sure that if someone breathes near you in a supermarket you will die when you have been in close contact with people who within a few days have been confirmed to have c19 and not been ill. It is hard to remain terrified when colleagues with serious health conditions have had c19 and recovered. It is hard to remain terrified when you are not in a high risk group and you are aware that the rate of deaths for people outwith these groups is very, very low indeed."

Indeed, even though I am in the very vulnerable category and told to shield at first for 12 weeks and now ongoing - I cannot live like that. I will NOT be terrified. My DIL has been in close contact with loads of people daily and some with it and not been ill. I have to balance things out for me now. For those that wish to remain at home and never go out that is their own personal choice, I cannot and will not anymore but I will take all social distancing precautions and limit contact to only a handful and at a distance but walking is good for MY SOUL

Brilliant post @Iwalkinmyclothing

Whereas this...it sounds like actual insanity

It does seem this way. I was shocked by the pictures of beaches in England on Bank Holiday. Just because they can go to the beach, it seems they have forgotten or no longer care about this virus going around. You wouldn't get me on one of those beaches if you paid me, and if I'm being honest, if some of them were to catch the virus through their own stupidity, then I have no sympathy. I bet it was some of those parents on the beach with their children who were moaning about the schools reopening too soon.

GWe can't stay locked up forever. The economy needs to get moving - the economic casualties of this will be far worse than the number of deaths from COVID.*

True, though if we’d locked down a week or two earlier we’d have saved thousands of lives AND been able to get moving again quicker. Unfortunately BoJo the Racist Clown was only interested in herd immunity at the beginning of March, though I concede you can’t accuse him of hypocrisy what with his hospital handshake tours!

But Irregular (I won't @ you as this thread has moved on) you are only talking about the risk of covid. The risk to my mental health of not going out, the economic risk to the hairdressser of not doing their job, etc also need to be considered.

There is lots going on besides Covid. My dd is so anxious because she isn't at school. The risk to her and her siblings and me of covid is miniscule. But every day I have to answer question from my daughter (who is 8) about death. My work colleague has had her cancer treatment postponed. The people I work with are sliding into poverty, are experiencing increasing levels of domestic abuse, are isolated. it isn't just about covid.

Those deaths didn’t happen yesterday (or the day before). It’s newly reported or registered deaths of people with Covid 19. Doesn’t mean that they happened that very day.

Deaths have been in decline since the peak on approximately 8th April.

What Alexis said.

The reason behind lockdown IS over. The NHS coped. We have test, track and trace almost up and running, we know what to do if numbers start to rise up. It’s been too long.

For NOW, the economy is in the shit, at the very least working parents need their kids in school and to return to work, empty hospitals need to get going with other treatments. We need to start considering health concerns beyond dwindling cases of covid. We need to make money so that we can keep roofs over heads and fund the services we rely on. The shielded May or may not need to continue beyond 30th June.

I'm not going to take my chances just because others are getting bored

Oh come on. People aren’t getting ‘bored’. If boredom is all you’ve personally got to contend with then you’re doing pretty well actually.

I supported lockdown. We were told it was a short term measure to prevent the NHS from becoming overwhelmed. Well... we did that. And 9 weeks later here we still are. Still can’t see our families. Our children still can’t get an education. The goalposts have moved and I know longer support it.
Community transmission is very very low. Our chances of encountering someone with Covid is low. Our chances of catching it from someone while we are social distancing is lower. Our chances of then passing it on to someone vulnerable, who will be being even more careful about social distancing... even lower. It is nothing to do with ‘boredom’, it is about understanding the risks and learning to live with them. Because that’s what we (as a society) will have to do, just like we already live with many many risks to our health.

I'm not going to take my chances just because others are getting bored

LOL what an ignorant statement.

Do you really not see that people are struggling- financially (and therefore are forced to go back to work), mentally (for some people social isolation is drving them to the brink of suicide) and physically (people arent getting medical treatment or screening that they need).
This isnt about "boredom" and if you think that then you are being purposely obtuse and un-empathetic