Toddler Downstairs - 5:30am Wake Up Time

[missylondon]

Hi all,

I really need some help. As I write this, I am once again sleep deprived.

For background; I live in North London - in a terrace house. I live on the top two floors and there is a family downstairs below. They have a 17/18 month old. Throughout lockdown he's become more confident in walking/running, which is great.

He goes to bed at around 7:30pm and wakes up at 5:30am. From around 6:00am he runs up and down the length of the property. He used to have a car (that he would fit in) and pretend to 'drive' (the parents would push him) - but then as he became more confident walking/running; he would use the car to balance alongside and then push/run with it down the hallway. There is a step down/up in their hallway - and obviously he doesn't understand that the car cannot be pushed/rolled over the step - nor is he strong enough to lift the car up the step. This creates an almighty bang/vibration throughout the house that wakes me up every morning - and then continues to happen for most of the day. (I'm surprised it is THAT entertaining for him!) What I don't understand is that - it is SO loud up here; so surely it would be 100x louder for the parents downstairs?! I'm shocked they are so immune to it.

He now has a scooter that he rides in the house too. Not one of those 'micro scooters' - an even more 'baby' version of a scooter.

How do I know all of the above? This is because I've asked what the noise is/where it come from. In fairness; there was no aggressiveness from them as I asked politely - but they simply laughed it off more than anything else. I asked again if they could keep the noise down a little even for a little while - especially as it starts from 6:00am... nothing has changed so far.

I understand that most people find upstairs neighbours irritating, but in their words, I am 'quiet as a mouse'. I live alone, I don't people over (obviously more so given the climate we are in) don't play any music etc... and when I do; it is via headphones. I work as a research scientist and am currently working crazy hours (from home) alongside our colleagues worldwide. (Some of my colleagues are on PST so that's -8 hours from GMT - hence why I sometimes have late nights).

They have a garden, albeit a small one, but I think they believe that because they are on the ground floor, that sound doesn't travel 'up'. Newsflash; it does. I've asked again if they could kindly put down some rugs, but nothing has changed.

Don't get me wrong; I don't think it's fair to expect TOTAL silence. That would be unreasonable on my part. In fact; I quite like hearing the toddler in the garden/playing etc... however; to make SUCH a racket - and a constant one from 6:00am onwards is a bit much. Even him running throughout the house is actually louder than his parents' own footsteps! I can also hear him jumping on/off the sofa all day as well as crying/screaming. I don't know how to approach it (once again) without sounding like I'm pestering them.

Please help!

My toddler can make a huge amount of noise first thing in the morning. He's excited and running about. It is pretty normal to run about, but the scooter and banging could be avoided. Have you actually told them it's a problem or was it not that kind of conversation? I wear earplugs, a habit thhat started when I had noisy neighbours and also stop DH's snoring waking me. Would that help? You still hear your alarm and stuff and get used to it. It just takes the edge of loud noise.

off

@B0bbin Initially; it was more of a polite conversation. The second time, it was less so. (The second conversation was when they mentioned the sound was now the scooter and not the car). That was the same conversation where I asked if they could put some rugs down. I believe they don't feel like they have to as there's no-one below them.

I've actually started falling asleep with my headphones in as I listen to podcasts. I've also tried 'white noise' to drown it all out. No avail, as it's the vibration that travels up the house too.

I don't mind the running - even though it is generally irritating for others. It is part and parcel of living nearby/technically in the same house as someone who has a child. It's more that it is incessant, SO loud, starts ridiculously early in the morning - and barely stops all day. They do take him out to the park, but usually late in the day. I'm trying to think of all options that I can take so that they don't have to change much of their lifestyle/routine as I'm the one without kids, but it would be nice if they made some effort - any effort even.

Have a polite, calm but firm conversation with them. Tell them what you have written here - that you are having to work late into the night and that the noise coming from their child's scooter/car banging and going up and down their floor is waking you up. I think the whole thing is rubbish, but I'd focus on the early morning and the car/scooter as that seems to be the worst part for you and giving a specific thing might make them more likely to listen, rather than just a general rant

I don't agree that the toddler should be running about at 6 am. They can definitively stop the issue with the car and scooter. As for the running I would expect them to shut doors if possible and ideally use something quiet like TV until at least 7am. Of course toddlers are noisy and can't be reasoned with but they shouldn't just let it happen.

My toddler is a 6am riser. We are also in a downstairs flat. Your neighbours are being really inconsiderate and they surely must be able to hear the loud bangs. No way would mine be allowed to play with big cars and scooters at that time of day (just as much for my own sanity as for my neighbours). We watch some TV early on and do quiet crafty type things in the morning usually. They can surely keep the car and scooter away until the afternoon.

Toddler wakes up at 5.30 - he has breakfast, plays a bit and then absolutely watches a bit of TV - because no body needs a screaming and rampaging toddler so early in the morning (including me!)

YANBU. Spell it out for them. Car and scooter should be hidden from
View in the morning

Ask them to look at soundproofing- even just a rug if the floor is wooden/laminate/tiles etc may help.

Sound transmission can be complicated in houses so they may not realise how loud it is in your flat.

Sometimes have late nights. Sometimes. Not all the time. So it’s fair to assume you’re getting a full nights sleep otherwise? Getting up at 5.30 is not sleep deprived. It’s just not. I’m up all night with a baby and up at 5.30 for a full day of working and with the kids. That is sleep deprivation. There’s nothing to be done here he is playing in his own house. He’s a baby. I’m also in a north London terrace and I make sure there’s no shouting in the garden at anytime of the day but games played in my own house are fine.

YANBU it is a parent’s responsibility to ensure that their children do not wake the neighbours at 5:30am. We spend a lot of time making sure our children are calm and quiet until 9am.

@Washyourhandsyoufilthyanimal Unfortunately; you're incorrect. I work both time zones (the reason for this being COVID research - which is the nature of my work right now having joined forces with my team in the US). Yes, he is playing in his house - this was never disputed. What was the issue is the level of noise, plus the time of day - and it being incessant banging. As you'll be able to see from my original post; I have no issues with the baby himself. Why would I? He's a baby.

I can only assume you wanted to be controversial in your post. You being up all night with a baby makes zero difference to the situation.

Personally, I think ride in/on toys unreasonable in an upper flat any time of the day. They’re outdoor toys, surely? Where with ours. If it’s raining, play with something else.

@chillipeanuts They are in the downstairs flat, which is why I believe they think it's ok - as no one is below them.

I genuinely don't mind hearing the toddler throughout the day. As I said; hearing him in the garden/generally throughout the day isn't an issue. It's the running around at 5:30am onwards - be it pushing a car/riding a scooter into the steps that is repeatedly bangs throughout the house that is the issue. Yes, the noise in general isn't ideal - but that's part and parcel of having children nearby. To expect total silence would be unreasonable on my part. I'm genuinely trying everything I can in order to accommodate them.

I'd try again with them, start off with something nice about how you nice it is he's enjoying his scooter/car and that you appreciate it's not easy dealing with an early riser but could they keep the scooter/car out of his sight until after a more reasonable time (7am? 8am?). You could always invite one of them up to your flat while the other shoves it down the step so they can hear the noise it makes.

I genuinely don't mind hearing the toddler throughout the day. As I said; hearing him in the garden/generally throughout the day isn't an issue. It's the running around at 5:30am onwards - be it pushing a car/riding a scooter into the steps that is repeatedly bangs throughout the house that is the issue. Yes, the noise in general isn't ideal - but that's part and parcel of having children nearby. To expect total silence would be unreasonable on my part. I'm genuinely trying everything I can in order to accommodate them.

Tell them this too, that you're not expecting then to tip toe around and that you have no issue with toddler noise at any other point of the day.

Op no not wanting to be controversial at all just saying that SOMETIMES working overnight isn’t sleep deprived and I have you and example of why I considered real sleep deprivation. Unless you’re working all night every night? That’s different but you said in your OP sometimes have late nights. Now that means to me sometimes working late. Late could be anything midnight? 11pm? You’ve not been clear. You’ve said you work with different time zones but that doesn’t mean your up all night. Well in your op it didn’t come across that way.

I don’t let my toddler have anything particularly noisy in the early mornings and we’re not even in a flat and my neighbour is deaf and has HIS tv louder than ours. But I keep the tv fairly low and jumping off furniture and slamming plastic toys about would be an instant NO! from me. They sound like shocking parents and massive inconsiderate twats.

Time for a direct less polite conversation- you don’t have to justify your reasons around your working life. Banging and running and screaming at 6am is unacceptable full stop.
“I know I’ve mentioned this before but the noise you are making in the early mornings is really started to affect my quality of sleep. I don’t know if you realise how loud it is but it’s very loud”.
No need to be apologetic to them - short and direct.

Don’t know why people are suggesting a nicely nicely approach. You’ve done that.

How would they like it if you played loud music and stomped around your flat at 7pm when they are trying to settle their toddler to sleep? Would they politely tell you how much they enjoy your music section but could you maybe possibly think about playing it half an hour later???

I think you need to pick your battles. Ride-on noise before 8am, for example. That is unreasonable of them. They will be going through hell too being in lockdown with toddler and no nursery, playgrounds etc so focus on one thing and ask for it to stop completely please.
You live on the top two floors, are you sleeping on the top floor? Quite something for noise to travel two storeys.

Could you try playing white noise in the morning so you can sleep better?

YANBU I would have a gentle word just asking if they could limit the car/scooter to a bit later in the day.

All 3 of mine went through an early waking stage at that age and I used to keep them quiet with books or a bit of tv so we didn’t disturb my neighbour. Yes toddlers do get up early but it doesn’t mean they can wake everyone else up!

Don’t know why people are suggesting a nicely nicely approach.

Because OP and this family have to live next to one another and there's no need to go in all guns blazing when the toddler is more than likely going to eventually grow out of the 5am wake up and banging a scooter about phase?

Because if OP does end up needing to escalate it elsewhere (e.g., landlord to tell them to put rug down) them she needs to show she's acted reasonably too?

Because it's easy in MN to say "kick off" but in real life kicking off just makes the person doing the kicking off look like a dick?

Have a look at this article about white noise
www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/nov/17/sounding-it-out-listening-to-white-noise-put-my-life-back-on-track-megan-nolan

@Washyourhandsyoufilthyanimal It's nothing to do with how much sleep you think someone should be getting. 5.30 is a ridiculous time for making that level of noise, toddler or not. They should not be allowing him to drive a scooter indoors at that kind of time in the morning, it's absurd! I have a toddler and would be furious if we got woken up at 5.30 every morning!

You chose to have a child and early morning risings come as part of that. OP did not choose to have a child and should not be getting woken up by that level of noise at 5.30.