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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder when the NHS is going to start protecting all the people it dumped back in March?

150 replies

Noextremes2017 · 26/05/2020 09:46

Simply that?

OP posts:
Elouera · 26/05/2020 09:49

What do you mean? Who are you referring to? Patients with appointments that were cancelled, or the agency medical staff who haven't had a shift in months?

MooseBreath · 26/05/2020 09:49

YANBU. With Covid numbers dropping, you'd think elective life-saving surgeries and therapies would start up again...

tonkatruck · 26/05/2020 09:56

yes soon hopefully a relative of mine has been 'urgently referred' for an appointment... that has come through as march 2021!!!

Beebeby · 26/05/2020 10:05

YABU the NHS did what it had too when this all stared. If they hadn’t that would have been wrong too. I wish people would stop looking to criticise the good guys and remember these were unprecedented times.

NailsNeedDoing · 26/05/2020 10:28

I agree. As much as we all appreciate the NHS, I don’t think it’s wise to lose sight of the fact that before this, the NHS was regularly letting people down because they simply don’t have the capacity to cope with the demand. That’s not the fault of the people that work within the system of course, but I think we need to be careful that we aren’t so busy applauding the NHS that we forget how much improvement there needed to be.

Noextremes2017 · 26/05/2020 12:10

Yes - all the people who were told that they 'needed' to have elective surgery who were then told 'sorry all elective surgery is cancelled for at least 90 days' due to the blind panic of Coronavirus.
Given me a whole new perspective on the NHS. I used to trust what I was told. Never again.

OP posts:
Noextremes2017 · 26/05/2020 12:21

PS

I am not criticizing the people. Some NHS staff are good / some are bad - same as everywhere.

I am criticizing the 'system'. You are told you need something doing urgently; you sit on waiting lists for months being fobbed off all the time; then you are told actually we're cancelling everything because we have our collective NHS head up our NHS arse and can only think about Coronavirus.

Pathetic. How many people will have died or seen a serious worsening of their condition as a result??

But they could have gone to A&E you shout! Most people who have had anything to do with hospitals (as patients) know what horribly infectious places they are. Turning up at A&E (for something else) was the gateway to Coronavirus for at one particular person I know of.

The 'system' should have kept certain hospitals free of Coronavirus patients operating as normal and concentrated Coronavirus patients in other hospitals where they could best be treated.

OP posts:
StonedRoses · 26/05/2020 12:31

If only we’d all thought of your ideas first. And if only it wasn’t a little bit more complicated than that.
The reality is that we have been doing surgery throughout this process. If it can’t wait we’ve done it - cancer, trauma, progressive conditions. BUT it’s slow with all the precautions and PPE so we can’t do as much. And many of our theatre staff were redeployed to ITU - and very much needed there

We are planning for restarting surgery but it’s not as straightforward as you think. Trying to keep covid and non covid apart, including staff, is difficult. A test (that’s not 100%) just tells you your covid status on the day.

We don’t want patients coming in and catching covid, or spreading it to other patients. And if you do have covid your risk from elective surgery increases.

We didn’t do this for shits and giggles or to piss you off OP. We did it because we had to and we’re trying our best

From an exhausted anaesthetist

EnglishRain · 26/05/2020 12:34

The system isn't making these decisions. We have very little autonomy even as a system. Every January for the last few years we have been told to abandon all elective ops to deal with winter pressures. Then they expect us to pick up the pieces and treat people within so many weeks when waiting lists have just had another five weeks added onto them.

Regulators hold hospitals to account, and the gov hold the regulators to account. Think robbing Peter to pay Paul. It isn't joined up. Hospitals get told they aren't performing but they aren't in a position to make the big decisions needed to transform services, often because of a lack of funds. Since covid, for example, more cash has been made available where I work and we've had loads of capital expenditure on things which will have an amazing impact on patient care. Things we have been asking for for years, and we have always been told 'no' before.

EnglishRain · 26/05/2020 12:38

@StonedRoses thank you for everything you do. The anaesthetists where I work have been amazing. We've struggled with numbers in the dept over the last year or two (sickness mainly) but without question they've pulled out all the stops and made things work to ensure vital procedures have not been cancelled since covid.

We are doing half as many cases at the moment, purely because we can't get theatres turned around quickly with covid in the equation. It's a new way of working, and we aren't expecting things to settle down for 18 months +.

Suzie6789 · 26/05/2020 12:51

Hope so, I’m waiting to go for a scan on a lump I was so worried I was going to pay to go private. This was cancelled on the day due to the private hospitals facilities being requisitioned by the nhs around 26th March. I challenged and challenged my GP, but they wouldn’t budge and said it was non urgent. Let’s hope they were right.

Ginfilledcats · 26/05/2020 13:11

Who says it isn't happening? Myself, my mum and my husband all work at different hospitals, and I have a friend in another who's places of work have all continued to do urgent/life or limb surgery throughout the pandemic.

As of last week all our places of work have reinstated routine, non urgent work for opd and surgery. As a previous poster has said, processes are taking longer now due to the need for PPE and the beds available and level of cleaning required between turn over so where a ortho list could have done 6 ops in a day, will only be able to do 4. Therefore waiting times will be longer. Same for out patient appts. We've been doing telephone or video appointments for weeks and 1 f2f clinic for ones who need to be examined. This will increase back to normal number of clinics within weeks.

The reason everything "stopped for covid" is pretty obvious isn't it? A&e was inundated everywhere, medics pulled off clinics and ward rounds to support. Extra wards opened to accommodate the influx of acutely unwell patients, these need medics to do ward rounds and care for them, therefore they were pulled again from clinic and surgery, none of the (incredibly) expensive locums wanted to work and put themselves in danger, or doubled their cost per hour (I had a doctor willing to work 40 hour week but at £250 an hour, when normally would be £70-100). A lot of places had a 30-50% sickness rate for medics and nurses. If a medic on the ward is sick in normal times the first thing we do is cancel someone else's clinic to cover the ward, so even if clinics weren't originally cancelled they would have been to cover sickness.

All of that is sheer logistics before we even discuss reducing the likelihood of patients/staff contacting the disease. Look at all the rules for seeing family/going the super market. Why would that be prevented but we could put the doctors and patients at risk still?

All of this was a directive from NHS England. Had this not been done we'd have ended up like Italy or China with patients dying in corridors not even getting into A&E or into wards.

All my patients on every waiting list had been reviewed by the consultant, their latest letter and results etc to make sure nothing that was urgent was lost. This was also a massive exercise.

I really really feel for those that had appointments cancelled over the last few weeks. When you're scared or in pain it's awful to have to wait but seriously, what was the alternative? Plus if you were cancelled I'd be grateful - that means you're not urgent/life or limb threatened.

This wasn't a decision taken lightly by anyone and everyone is working so hard to keep track of every patient and come up with safe innovative ways to get patients back in ASAP. Our targets for treating people within x time frame haven't been relaxed and we'll still be expected to hit them or phase financial penalty. Also we get paid per patient seen in clinic/surgery done/diagnostic or test run, with the majority of this stopping the NHS trust is going to be severely impacted financially for a long time.

It was and is about being safe. Again I'm sorry you've been made to wait and it's awful and regrettable and I do have every sympathy, but perhaps consider the other implications too xxx

ITonyah · 26/05/2020 13:15

I personally would prefer hospitals to start mammograms and smear tests again rather than Next opening and the Grand Prix running, yes!

SoupDragon · 26/05/2020 13:18

Have you thought of offering the services of your far superior wisdom to the NHS?

sunshineandhappy · 26/05/2020 13:21

I work in a nhs lab dealing with routine and urgent referrals, the non urgent work has pretty much disappeared however the urgent and cancer work has remained the same. We have used that time to work through our backlog of routine work, and only now, have we managed to get to the work within the recommended reporting guideline. Shows how under resourced our departments is that with mercifully little sickness, the only way to cope with our workload is basically to shut the doors. I would guess this is a similar story for many non-front line but still important patient pathways, and with reducing throughput the likely future, its going to take a very long time for waiting lists to be processed.

Eskarina1 · 26/05/2020 13:23

I have two family members who have had appointment recently. Both inititially via telephone - one leading to a medication change, the other (worryingly) was given a face to face appointment for a week. A third family member who is shielding has been offered appointments for several conditions.

Zilla1 · 26/05/2020 13:27

I don't think the NHS ever stopped protecting those people you say were 'dumped' OP, just took account of the change in circumstances with respect to dimensions such as risk of infection, availability of expertise and ITU in case of post-operative difficulties and so on.

Toddlerteaplease · 26/05/2020 13:27

I would appreciate it if they protected their own staff. I was exposed to a positive patient. It was completely unexpected as he had no symptoms. I was very surprised that, I and the two other staff who looked after him. Were not immediately sent home and told to self isolate. We couldn't get a test through work. I managed to get one anyway by self referring on line. As I made the mistake of mentioning it to my mum. Who is now flapping.

PafLeChien · 26/05/2020 13:33

I personally would prefer hospitals to start mammograms and smear tests again rather than Next opening and the Grand Prix running, yes!

I am not sure what you think the link between these and the NHS might be... Unless you are happy for workhouse workers to start nursing you?

ITonyah · 26/05/2020 13:44

The link is that that is what the govt seem to think we all want!

PafLeChien · 26/05/2020 14:06

but the hospitals have never closed Confused

Throckmorton · 26/05/2020 14:11

Are you kidding OP - you think the hospitals cut back on this work for shits and giggles and that the coronavirus threat was made up or something?!

Northernsoulgirl45 · 26/05/2020 14:11

The Govt just want to get the economy moving again so they can stop furlough payments and receive taxes etc.
The NHS, I am sure will reinstate routine tests once able to go so.

Thatnameistaken · 26/05/2020 14:17

It will come too late for our neighbour who died last month because essential tests and treatments were cancelled. Lovely woman who should have still been with us today.

StonedRoses · 26/05/2020 14:38

Dumped is a very emotive term. Yes stuff has been postponed, no doubt about it. But we have members of staff who can’t do clinical work (high risk themselves) who went through EVERY referral and waiting list to determine what must go ahead. And those ones did

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