To not understand the outrage at Dominic Cummings?

[Wow123]

Please don’t flame me for this. I’m not posting this to be controversial. I am someone who always tries to see the good in people which has been to my detriment at time’s in the past so I’m very well aware that maybe I’m missing something here and being too kind when he possibly doesn’t deserve it.

My understanding is that Dominic Cummings is saying that he only returned to Durham on one occasion which was because he had fears about potentially being unable to look after his child if him and his wife both ended up too unwell with Covid. I can understand the logic in that.

I appreciate the government advice at that stage was to stay home but if he genuinely didn’t have anyone to help with his son, then I can understand his fears and that he was trying to put his child first as any parent would.

My understanding is that a matter of days after, the government did clarify that travelling in the event of needing support with children if you had caught covid was an exceptional circumstance and that travel in that instance was acceptable.

I personally live hundreds of miles from family and don’t have anyone I could ask for help in the local area was I to become unwell with Covid so this does resonate with me.

I understand that there were sightings of Dominic Cummings on other dates in Durham which indicate that he travelled back up there. If this is true, I definitely agree that he needs to be sacked, but at this stage, there is no proof of this.

Am I missing something here?

It has been repeatedly documented in the last couple of days that the care of a child if both parents have the virus would be an exception to 'stay at home

It has not been 'documented'. It's been suggested by pp as a shame-faced defence of Cummings. The advice has not changed, if parents have CV they must isolate at home with the rest of the household. An exception would only be appropriate if both parents were hospitalised.

'So High Horse you know Cummings neighbours? 👀👀👀👀'

Err, no. I saw them hanging out of windows shouting abuse at him and his family on the news. HTH.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/dominic-cummings-could-quit-boris-johnsons-government-if-hes-unable-to-cut-down-hours-1345990
We don't know why DC needed an 'urgent opertion'. Do you?

'Is this a serious answer? It’s been repeated in the last couple of days to justify what D.C. did - that was not the case when he did it.'

Look, they haven't just added a caveat in the last 2 days that if both parents are ill and there is the welfare of a DC to consider then exceptions may be considered. The guidance has always been there.

Oh, nice touch. 'If you don't agree, it's because you're not important enough yourself'. It's nice and might be effective, but possibly not the best strategy if you're trying to defend someone who's being accused of arrogance and self-importance.

No-one should be so important to a government that that government cannot get by without them. People get ill, too ill to work. People need time off (even really important people with really high pressure jobs). The government needs to have plans in place for when a senior adviser is not available, whether they're off on holiday or having to look after a child whilst other child care isn't available.

It's about whether you have been in a position where the stakes are really bloody high and you haven't got the luxury of just taking time out to look after your kids. My husband has a very integral role at a bank and has been pulling 14-16 hour days sometimes to keep things afloat during this pandemic. If I had got ill so hadn't been able to look after our dc he would have broken lockdown to get someone else to look after our kids.

I'm not saying this to sound self important, I'm just sharing the fact that there are roles where it's not just as simple as calling in sick because your wife is ill so you can't look after your kid, and DCs job is a lot more important than my husband's. Obviously no one is completely indispensable but clearly Boris believes he's vital otherwise he wouldn't be taking this much flack for him.

PS, I bet you DC was working even whilst ill with the virus.

Didn't take long for a Goady to start an 'I don't understaaaaaaaaaand' post on this one, hoping for a bunfight to liven up their day😴

I also think that Cummings doesn’t like his parents very much. According to the Guardians timeline he knew that he and his wife had the virus but he visited them anyway? Did he want them to get infected? There is no way I would go anywhere near my parents who are both vulnerable if I KNEW I was infected? Bizarre.

Look, they haven't just added a caveat in the last 2 days that if both parents are ill and there is the welfare of a DC to consider then exceptions may be considered. The guidance has always been there.

Wrong again, they were very specific at the start of the lockdown to stay at home, not to travel, not to meet family or friends. To pretend these were the guidelines all along is very, very stupid.

It has been repeatedly documented in the last couple of days that the care of a child if both parents have the virus would be an exception to 'stay at home'

No, it hasn't, @GetOffYourHighHorse. That is just Cummings' and Johnson's very recent desperate attempt to spin the facts and retrofit them to what would be convenient to them. Go on, try looking at what the guidance actually says.

obviously they should isolate which they did just somewhere his sister could offer support

Really? They couldn't have asked one of the relatives who lived much closer? They don't have any friends who live closer than 260 miles from them? They couldn't have utilised one of the many excellent neighbourhood Mutual Aid groups available in Islington? They couldn't have ordered from the many shops in the area making home deliveries? Really?

GetOffYourHighHorse

'So High Horse you know Cummings neighbours? 👀👀👀👀'

Err, no. I saw them hanging out of windows shouting abuse at him and his family on the news. HTH.
Maybe they were upset with him spreading the virus all over their street with no regard for their health?

Look, they haven't just added a caveat in the last 2 days that if both parents are ill and there is the welfare of a DC to consider then exceptions may be considered. The guidance has always been there.

So how come nobody can quote it? Can you, @GetOffYourHighHorse?

Private Nurses were available to those who can afford it over the whole lockdown.
Cummings could have employed someone to care for his wife and child. So he is stingy as well as arrogant and entitled.

So if you're going to demand Cummings is sacked then at least be consistent and demand Keir Starmer sacks the above MPs as well

You omitted Robert Jenrick an actual minister who like Kinnock drove across the country to deliver food to his parents. Both were stupid, both apologised, Jenrick kept his job in Johnson's government. Incidentally Starmer wasn't leader when Kinnock took his idiotic jaunt across country.

Fair enough, add Robert Jenrick to the long list of MPs who've broken lockdown rules. The point was more that no one is out for Keir Starmer's blood with his merry band of lockdown renegades (fwiw, I don't care about any of them breaking lockdown rules, I'm just highlighting the hypocrisy).

Would you be happy then if DC held up his hands and apologised then?

'Wrong again, they were very specific at the start of the lockdown to stay at home, not to travel, not to meet family or friends. To pretend these were the guidelines all along is very, very stupid.'

The Dep cmo said on the TV before this had happened that ill parents and a young DC would be exceptional circumstances. Stop calling people stupid and try to debate like a grown up

Again, to be clear he shouldn't have gone but all the ott froth is because of who he is not what he has done.

'Maybe they were upset with him spreading the virus all over their street with no regard for their health?'

When did he spread the virus 'all over their street'?

I'm just sharing the fact that there are roles where it's not just as simple as calling in sick because your wife is ill so you can't look after your kid, and DCs job is a lot more important than my husband's. Obviously no one is completely indispensable but clearly Boris believes he's vital otherwise he wouldn't be taking this much flack for him

Surely if you're that indispensable you have a Plan B in place that doesn't involve travelling 260 miles and endangering your vulnerable parents?

When I was working with small kids, I wasn't that indispensable, but I had Plans B, C, D, E and F in place. None of them involved this sort of nonsense.

It really is very evident that what happened was that his wife got ill and he did what so many men do - he decided without thinking too hard about things to offload the childcare problem onto his sister and mother. The trouble is that that involved breaking the clear terms of the guidance he and his employers were heavily promoting. He needs to own up to that.

Again, to be clear he shouldn't have gone but all the ott froth is because of who he is not what he has done.

Wrong again, the problem is Boris Johnson has agreed to rewrite history to protect him. Waiting to see the links to the speeches where they said what you’re claiming they said all along.

that ill parents and a young DC would be exceptional circumstances

DC wasn’t ill. So this exceptional circumstance did not apply to him.

The Dep cmo said on the TV before this had happened that ill parents and a young DC would be exceptional circumstances

No. They said it would be exceptional for the purposes of, say, getting someone to come to you to help with child care. They did not say that it would be an exceptional circumstance justifying a 260 mile journey to take your child to your vulnerable elderly relatives when other closer alternatives are available.

If both parents were seriously ill, then the child could be moved. That should be arranged without anybody other than the child leaving the house.

DC was well enough to drive to Durham, so clearly he was well enough to look after the child
If he's not capable....

Good grief, how many other families have faced the same situation and just got on with it?

'it really is very evident that what happened was that his wife got ill and he did what so many men do - he decided without thinking too hard about things to offload the childcare problem onto his sister and mother.'

Is there a bit of projecting going on here?

Him and his wife could have ended up in hospital with the virus, there was accomodation where they could self isolate and family close by if their 4yr old needed caring for. Not a great plan but again, does not warrant both the media and his neighbours harassing and being abusive to his family

if they have an allegedly autistic son who needs specific care then I would expect
...them not not take him away from his home, routine and things and drive (in an enclosed space with two sick people) over 250 miles away from that.

DC and his wife are conveniently ill and not ill when they need to be in the narrative. They made more than one trip. They were infectious and had access to London based help and guidance most of us couldn't dream of.

@sleepingpup I'm not going on what others "think" I'm going on what pps on here are saying in one thread and hypocritically stating on another, all because they hated DC to begin with.
The harrassment towards Diana and Flack, all forgotten about now eh!

'them not not take him away from his home, routine and things and drive (in an enclosed space with two sick people) over 250 miles away from that.'

To be closer (while isolating) to family members his ds knew and loved if they were needed.

I would have done exactly the same, however I'm not a government advisor and it's the lapse in his judgement for predicting the outrage that i find more puzzling than the fact he went to self isolate near family.