To not understand the outrage at Dominic Cummings?

[Wow123]

Please don’t flame me for this. I’m not posting this to be controversial. I am someone who always tries to see the good in people which has been to my detriment at time’s in the past so I’m very well aware that maybe I’m missing something here and being too kind when he possibly doesn’t deserve it.

My understanding is that Dominic Cummings is saying that he only returned to Durham on one occasion which was because he had fears about potentially being unable to look after his child if him and his wife both ended up too unwell with Covid. I can understand the logic in that.

I appreciate the government advice at that stage was to stay home but if he genuinely didn’t have anyone to help with his son, then I can understand his fears and that he was trying to put his child first as any parent would.

My understanding is that a matter of days after, the government did clarify that travelling in the event of needing support with children if you had caught covid was an exceptional circumstance and that travel in that instance was acceptable.

I personally live hundreds of miles from family and don’t have anyone I could ask for help in the local area was I to become unwell with Covid so this does resonate with me.

I understand that there were sightings of Dominic Cummings on other dates in Durham which indicate that he travelled back up there. If this is true, I definitely agree that he needs to be sacked, but at this stage, there is no proof of this.

Am I missing something here?

To be honest, I am far from the only one using 'highly emotive language' on this thread. I am not using it 'against women' who criticise Cummings, I am using it as a method of communication towards anybody, male or female, who think that the behaviour and language shown on MN/Twitter/newspaper columns is A OK.

I don't think it is.

How did Kinnock do worse - he wasn’t supposed to be under quarantine, only standard lockdown (so at least allowed to leave the house, unlike DC and family).

Virus is unpredictable but likelihood of both parents being unable to look after their child was incredibly low, far outweighed by the clear instruction to stay home, save lives.

'He lives in Islington. Practically every front door has famous people behind it including many political figures'

Ah yes, lovely neighbourhood. People screeching insults at him.

I wish people were just honest and admit it is because he is massively unpopular and they want his head on a plate. Nothing to do with Brexit or the Tories no no..it is because he 'broke the rules' you see. Even though the Dep CMO said he didn't.

The trouble with the press rabble is it will all turn the tide to ' poor Dominic ' type sympathy. Why don't they just think?
Put the pitchforks down!

I think after HighHorse's post I can safely call bingo.

"Ah, interesting use of propaganda and manipulation there. Well done that bot."

Or facts. But don't let those get in your way of the pitchfork.

Cummings wasn't making a "minor indiscretion" and it does matter.

He was on SAGE, he was controlling the government response he was the architect of lockdown rules. The day after the PM stressed "stay at home, don't travel to family", reemphasised"if infected you must stay put" rules and put out an official No10 statement saying that Cummings was staying home for 7 days to self isolate in London Cummings was beetling up the motorway in breach of those rules.

Of course people will think if they can do it why shouldn't we?

And yes most people have stuck by the lockdown rules, missing funerals, births, illness in family members, missing elderly parents in care. People caught in "minor indiscretions" have been fined. Ordinary people that is.

My local MP (Conservative) has been inundated with mails and calls from his own supporters, never mind the general electorate. If you think that is a witchhunt and Cummings committed a minor indiscretion then you are trivialising what many people have suffered in recent weeks.

I don't know if one of his trips up North was actually for personal business. The most salient part of that story is that yet another Cummings connected business is getting business from the Government purse and access to Government data without even going to tender.

Yes it is 100% a Tory/labour brexit outrage thing dressed up as rule breaking fury.

I disagree. Dominic Cummings is unelected, he’s not answerable to the public, outside of being in the public eye and it’s ‘not a good look’ as he said himself.

The issue now is the unflinching backing by our Prime Minister to the extent they’re pretending the rules all along included a loophole for concerned parents. And keep in mind there are concerned parents who couldn’t be with their children as they died because of the rules set out by that same government.

I wish people were just honest and admit it is because he is massively unpopular and they want his head on a plate. Nothing to do with Brexit or the Tories no no..it is because he 'broke the rules' you see. Even though the Dep CMO said he didn't.

Embarrassing to admit, I didn’t even know who he was before this story broke.

Ah Vanhi
You got in before me. Can we split the prize?
(Though my bingo wings are probably bigger :-) )

"I personally live hundreds of miles from family and don’t have anyone I could ask for help in the local area was I to become unwell with Covid so this does resonate with me."

So do I OP. But when we had it (or believe we did, not having been tested) we just had to look after the kids and hope for the best. If necessary we would have asked a family member to travel to us and then isolate all together as per the rules. There is loads of community support for dropping off food etc., esp. in London. But he just thinks he is above all that.

I agree OP.

On the face of it you can say 'he broke lockdown, off with his head' but the reality is more nuanced -

• I've read reports that his child has ASD. If that is the case he can't therefore be palmed off on the nearest relative or friend, they are likely to only have a very small set of people the child feels comfortable with. This is the case for a lot of young children, even without ASD.

• He is one of the most senior, important people in politics whether you like it or not. With his wife already ill how is he expected to carry on working continue to support the PM if he has a 4 year old (possibly with ASD) to look after. Not exactly the same set of circumstances as most parents who are having to juggle work and childcare. I don't want the most senior advisors to the pm to be distracted by having to do dinner and bathtime for their kid during a pandemic. Anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't have a senior enough job so doesn't know what it's like to be under that much pressure.

Did he break lockdown? Probably. Did he have good reason, in my opinion, yes. Would the media be so aggressive about a female MP in a similar position with young children? Definitely not.

But if we're going for his scalp I'm hoping everyone is going to be consistent and also ask for the resignation of below who did the following during lockdown -

Steven Kinnock, Labour MP - who travelled hundreds of miles to visit his elderly parents

Kevan Jones Labour MP - who attended a constituent's birthday party

Tahir Ali, Labour MP - who attended a funeral with hundreds of people there.

Vaughn Gething, Labour’s Health Secretary in Wales - who had a family picnic in a park at a time when the Welsh Government banned picnics in the park.

So if you're going to demand Cummings is sacked then at least be consistent and demand Keir Starmer sacks the above MPs as well.

ShinyS1
* I also work with someone who continued to look after their grandkids, despite their DD and SIL in risky public facing jobs.*
Are they a senior adviser to the PM and did they help set the rules? I'm guessing not.

* He didn't 'break the rules' though, when potentially too ill to care for a dc they needed family nearby to step in. The MSM scrum on his doorstep is disgusting. *
He did break the rules. We all had a leaflet through our door telling us not to leave the house if we had symptoms. Those were the rules. There was nuance applied depending on your personal circumstances and as others have pointed out he did not need to visit multiple times as has been reported. There has also been no acknowledgement that he has done anything wrong. He has.

Nothing to do with Brexit or the Tories no no..

I think there are quite a lot of Tory MPs up and down the country getting inundated with angry letters from people who would normally support them. People who have obeyed the rules, and now found that the laws could be broken if they don't like them.

The Tory Party ought to kick Cummings out, but they can't because he's not a member.

The prize is a big tub of popcorn and a fresh bingo card @Nappyvalley15 Help yourself. If you read ShinyS1's post you'll probably fill the next card quicker.

Nothing to do with Brexit or the Tories no no..

No it’s not. More to do with Johnson inadvisably backing him on the podium.

His own statement should clear it up. He can explain and stay, fine. Not least because we’d be in more trouble if Johnson’s thinker left.

@ChocolatelyAsFuck "there are clearly accounts posting on this thread which are Tory bots."

Choc, your "new posters" are more likely to be people who have name changed. Many regulars do, to protect their privacy. e.g. See this thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3844615-To-think-Mumsnetters-should-change-usernames-more-often

I change my username on every thread - it's nothing to do with this topic, I do it as a matter of course. It's because I was once recognised by someone in RL who then looked back at previous threads with personal info in. Lots of other MN posters do the same. It's not like Facebook - everyone here on MN has the right to anonymity if they want it.

Your paranoia about 'Tory bots' stems from only stalking the accounts of people who disagree with you, or perhaps because they are people who feel they are swimming against the tide of the thread and NC'd for that reason.

For the record, I've never voted Tory in my life and voted against Brexit.

If he knew his wife had Covid-19 for definite and knew the risks, why are you assuming they would have had loo stops? Their child may have worn night pants for the journey because of these unprecedented circumstances or could even have slept the whole time, depending on when they left.

Toilet trained 4 year olds tend to get quite distressed if told they will have to wee or poo in their pants.

There is no way on God's earth that you can know, before starting a journey at any time of the day or night, that a 4 year old will sleep through.

And what about his ill wife? How could he guarantee that she would not need a break?

How about fuel? If he didn't refuel during the journey, it would be extremely surprising if he didn't do so before it started. Remember that clear advice at that time was that family members of infected people should not be going out for any reason.

But perhaps the most significant factor is that he has never addressed this point. Don't you think that if he hadn't stopped, he would have made that very clear.

(Caveat: he may of course come up with a lie statement to that effect this afternoon: but something that is produced so late would have a distinct credibility problem).

'am using it as a method of communication towards anybody, male or female, who think that the behaviour and language shown on MN/Twitter/newspaper columns is A OK.'

Yes it is hysterical, pitch fork waving disturbing behaviour.

To the pp, Kinnock did worse because he didn't have an allegedly autistic 4yr old son whom he knew would struggle if both parents ended up in hospital. Kinnock was at his parents just for a chat.

It all of course needed clarity and discussion but the frothing response on his doorstep when he was carrying his son is utterly deplorable

Was not*

I haven’t stalked anyone’s account, and I’m not paranoid.

But it is very, very telling the sheer amount of abusive, histrionic and bizarrely overly emotive language being used against anyone who criticises Cummings.

I you think there aren’t bot on MN I have a bridge to sell you.

If you were Dominic Cummings, or any other media hate figure, it would be impossible for you to use these networks because someone would have sold the story.

Would it matter if they did? At worst there'd be a bit of joking around the fact that he didn't have any actual friends willing to do it for him. There's nothing in the guidelines that says you can ignore them if you are well known and it might be a bit embarrassing for you.

@wrinklin

Your paranoia about 'Tory bots' stems from only stalking the accounts of people who disagree with you

I seriously doubt most MNers changers changer their username for every single thread. What utter bullshit.

What could you inadvertently say that is so personally identifying in a thread about Cummings?

Not least because we’d be in more trouble if Johnson’s thinker left.

Would we? Johnson being a lazy toad would have to delegate to his MPs - OK the toadies in Cabinet won't be much good, because they only share one brain cell between them, but there are perfectly good backbenchers who could step up.

And these same posters are still blithely lying by pretending that he only took one trip, that he simply drove straight there (when we know he made multiple outings for leisure reasons) that he did this for childcare and illness reasons.

All just a packet of lies.

The bots think if they parrot “We have always been at war with Eastasia” over and over again people will believe it, and if we don’t, they attack us and destroy our credibility by calling us hysterical women.