Blaming Women for Delaying Motherhood - The Guardian

[astrogirl99]

AIBU to find this opinion piece (and yes it is very much Barbara's opinion supported by zero facts) tiresome?

I appreciate her efforts to contextualise a drop in birth rates within the context of economic pressures.

But why do smug 'feminist' journalists seem to CONSISTENTLY ignore the fact that many women aren't able to couple up until their early 30s or later, despite their best efforts at finding someone to start a family with?

I am bothered by her suggestion that women are "deferring children" (as though it's their choice alone), thus risking "later infertility." This is blaming women, through and through. As though we can just pump out a baby on our own if we just throw caution to the wind like she did. Why the fuck am I reading this shit in 2020?!

Perhaps I'm over-reacting, but I'm thinking of dear friends in their 30s who are waking up in cold sweats, trying to come to terms with a future without children; or pursuing hugely expensive egg-freezing / donor sperm ON THEIR OWN because they haven't met a partner willing or able to start a family with.

Massively insensitive article and a bunch of speculative, anti-woman bullshit. FFS do better The Guardian, this is why I don't subscribe.

Honestly, I'm sometimes I'm glad I've had fertility problems and was single into my 30s as it means I'll never fall into this sexist, 'I feel this is the case about other women who should have just got a man and had kids the way I did' judgemental bullshit. To any ladies out there who are doing it tough around these issues, I am sending you love today.

I feel like most people commenting have not read the article. She never blames women, only references the fact that it is women’s fertility which declines of childbearing is deferred. It’s about economics.

I can identify what she is referring to and I feel I fit it. I and most of my friends in our late twenties - early thirties have not started procreating. Most are in happy long term relationships and are working to be increasingly established in their professional careers but even so, are struggling to gather deposits for houses and feel they don’t have the savings to have a baby.

I’m 28 and am happily married and desperately broody but despite my professional job and best efforts I’ve ended in up in a bit of debt after spending all my savings buying a doer upper and then having unexpected cost after unexpected cost. My husbands job is more uncertain than mine and he earns significantly less than I so we would be potentially squeezed to the hilt if I had maternity leave. I’m doing extra shifts this year trying to throw money at my debts. We also really could do with a new roof but that means going into the red further.

I believe the author is saying sod the new roof and the debts, have a baby if you want one, don’t be constrained by economic concerns and you will work it out.

She hasn't blamed women at all. The article is blaming economics for the declining birth rate.

it’s about how, increasingly, one factor (economics) is limiting personal freedoms, stopping people making choices they want to make.

It's saying that finances is causing many women to delay having a baby when they might otherwise like to have one earlier, and some women are then unable to have children, or unable to have as many as they would have liked. And on a society level, we have a problem as the birth rate is declining too much.

And in her personal opinion, some women might be happier overall having a baby sooner, without waiting to get in a better financial position. The traditional order of going to uni, getting engaged, saving up for a wedding, getting married, saving for a deposit, buying a house, getting in a good career position, then trying to conceive is taking longer for a multitude of reasons now, so by the time you have reached the TTC part of that list you may be into declining fertility.

It's not blaming individual women, it's blaming societal economic factors, and saying that with changing circumstances some women may benefit from making different decisions.

The number of people I know who delayed TTC to buy a house first for example. A sensible decision 10 years ago, possibly not now when it can take so much longer to save up for a deposit.

I agree completely OP! I would love to be married and thinking children. but unfortunately it’s never happened for me. I’m only mid 30’s and probably will think of doing motherhood solo but only if I hit 38/39 still single.

For example, some older relatives thought it was reckless for my friend to conceive her first very much wanted baby aged 39 whilst living in a rented flat with her husband, they thought she should have bought a house with a garden first, that it was irresponsible to have a baby in a rented home let alone a flat. Times have changed. With student debts, MUCH higher house prices, more insecure employment, she would have been waiting a long time to buy a house and been unable to have a child.

I blame Meghan. Wait till you've bagged a Prince before reproducing.

I liked your post Darling, but just wanted to say that
“The traditional order of going to uni, getting engaged, saving up for a wedding, getting married, saving for a deposit, buying a house, getting in a good career position, then trying to conceive”

Is a newer order, not the traditional order. The traditional order was:
Leave school, get married (no or budget wedding), have children, go to uni part time while children are in school, then start a career when the children are in secondary school and you are mid30s to early 40s.

Buying a house wasn’t really part of the order unless you were middle class or higher. If you were, then typically the parents would help with a deposit and you’d buy a house after the wedding or after the first baby.

The article is bad only because it is so one dimensional. Women not being able to afford children is just one reason why they may choose to have children later or not at all and its disingenuous to suggest its the main reason. Reasons I can think off the top of my head besides being unable to afford it:

Wanting to have children with a partner but not finding a partner who wants the same things.
Fear that career will be derailed because society still sidelines pregnant women and women with young children.
A desire to explore freedoms such as travel, work etc before settling down.
Environmental reasons - limiting children to one, or at most two, to support the planet
Mental health reasons
Other caring responsibilities

I'm sure there are loads more.

This has hit a nerve with me and I think it should be spoken more about.

I’m in my mid twenties and been broody since I hit puberty. I’ve done the whole uni/travelling thing, currently building my career and I’ve made the first step into the property ladder.

I want to be in the position whereby I can work from home/part-time and support any child single handily (posts from here shows the amount of men who just walk out and woman are expected to pick up the childcare bill/mortgage/costs which usually mean giving up a career due to being primary caregiver).

It’s a difficult one as children aren’t cheap, giving them every experience possible is what most parents want. I want to live in a catchment area of the best schools, if I feel my child has a learning disability I want to be able to get a diagnosis and not wait three years on the NHS etc etc.

I’ve mentioned to my partner (we’ve lived together for a year) that I don’t want to wait until 30 as fertility starts to decline and there’s nothing more that we want but kids. It’s not taught in school or society that a biological clock is ticking - he mentioned of the 44 year old he knows that fell pregnant but he doesn’t know of all the women who spend all year TTC.

Someone I know quite close to me has fallen pregnant in her early twenties of TTC for less than a month - she’s not thought of her zero hour contract or maternity pay. She’s bidding for a council flat and going on FB market place for all the baby bit bargains. I’m jealous of her nativity - she’s not thought of schools, how she’ll pay for end of year trips or what happens if her partner leaves her (they’ve not been together for long). She’s just blissfully with her baby scan and choosing the right name for her baby girl. Why am I so focused on trying to get everything perfect when we never know what the future is going to bring us?

True @PlanDeRaccordement. I suppose I mean what many people think is the traditional order, not what actually was the traditional order!

Yes Darling,
It is true women today think that is the traditional and expected order.
I think it is a very misleading order as it tells you that you must have it all (marriage, house, and a well established career) before having children. I think it sets women up to fail. It’s too high an expectation unless you are lucky to be middle class with parental help on tap.

@planderaccordement

I think there is some truth there about expecting to have it all before starting a family.

I don’t feel like I can have a baby until the house we have bought is completely done and we have spare money.

I agree Nanny, there is truth to that. The author of the article was saying that this feeling, of needing mostly financial related boxes ticked that make a mother to be feel secure enough to have a baby is a new fearfulness caused by today’s economic insecurity.

You’ve said it yourself..home complete and money to spare in the bank. And the sad thing is that your need for this is based on realistic fears due to economic uncertainties. You’re not unreasonable in the slightest.

The sad thing is that time marches on and fertility declines with age. So many women will run out of time because it is harder and harder to get to a place of relative security when things are so uncertain.

You’ve said it yourself..home complete and money to spare in the bank. And the sad thing is that your need for this is based on realistic fears due to economic uncertainties. You’re not unreasonable in the slightest.
The sad thing is that time marches on and fertility declines with age. So many women will run out of time because it is harder and harder to get to a place of relative security when things are so uncertain.

And many countries have a falling birth rate heading or already below replacement, and will really struggle with an ageing population, too few working-age adults with a larger number of elderly people. This is very sad for individuals, but also a big problem for countries.

I think she’s wrong to say finance is such a major factor.

If I look at myself (married with DC) and those I know with DC, yes we cared that we were in the financial position to have children and properly provide for them but it wasn’t the biggest factor in when we had them... it was mostly the men.

Some women (actually quite a few) came off contraception as soon as they got married. When they got married was generally up to the man as they apparently had to wait for him to propose.
For the rest of us it was still a function of just when we met someone and when the couple agreed to go for it with the woman generally being ready before the man.
In my case I wanted more urgently than my DH but he agreed to go for it on my timeline, for which I am very grateful.

I don't think the two versions of the 'traditional order' described are right at all. For one they don't include any work before marriage. Most working class women would have left school in their early teens at the latest and would have been working in farms, in service or in factories before marriage.

19th century novels are full of descriptions of middle class people being worried about being engaged for years while waiting for the man to earn enough to support a wife and family.

University wasn't part of the traditional route for all, especially for working class women. In the early 1960s only 4% of school leavers went to university.

Buying a house wasn't common either. Most people rented, either privately or (once it became available) in council housing. In the nineteenth century and earlier many people had housing provided as part of their work (eg those working on the land or in service on the big estates owned by the aristocracy, or in accommodation built specifically for factory or mine workers.

On a personal note, my two grandmothers were born at the end of the 19th century. Both worked during the First War and were engaged for a few years before marriage while they saved up for marriage. They married in their mid 20s. My mother and 5 aunts (all born in the 1920)s all went to university or teacher training college and worked before marriage. Those that married (one aunt didn't) mainly married in their mid 20s. My mother was 32. She and my father bought a house when they got engaged.

Women today cant seem to win either way ! If you have children at say early mid 20s you are not established in your Career ,or havent been to Thailand/India /Africa/all 3! Maybe if you look at this the opposite way Many women who had children relatively young may be looking back at missed opportunites and thinking what could have been? Women are apparently "programmed" to have DC it seems (The DM etc keep telling us so!) Women who have travelled widely or got ahead in their Careers will maybe miss out on DC .Some of them still get Nieces /Nephews and so on .Choices really .The" lucky "few will then have to resume their Careers shortly after giving birth and be able to have /do it all!

I read the article and interpreted it differently- the writer seems to be saying that the economy is causing people to delay having children. I think she probably has a point.

SoddingSoda While I wish your young friend well .I think she is being hopelessly naive here .Council housing lists are notoriously long ,and many families never reach the top of the list .Without sounding snobby some (not all) flats may be in less than desirable areas ,and these will be coming up for rent first. Rented housing in in short supply as well .With a right leaning Govt in power these things are unlikely to change any time soon .I think you are wise to wait and become more settled .At 30 you have time on your side and if you were to TTC then you have at least thought through providing for a DC.Its not waiting for everything to be "perfect"Its being sensible!