Blaming Women for Delaying Motherhood - The Guardian

[astrogirl99]

AIBU to find this opinion piece (and yes it is very much Barbara's opinion supported by zero facts) tiresome?

I appreciate her efforts to contextualise a drop in birth rates within the context of economic pressures.

But why do smug 'feminist' journalists seem to CONSISTENTLY ignore the fact that many women aren't able to couple up until their early 30s or later, despite their best efforts at finding someone to start a family with?

I am bothered by her suggestion that women are "deferring children" (as though it's their choice alone), thus risking "later infertility." This is blaming women, through and through. As though we can just pump out a baby on our own if we just throw caution to the wind like she did. Why the fuck am I reading this shit in 2020?!

Perhaps I'm over-reacting, but I'm thinking of dear friends in their 30s who are waking up in cold sweats, trying to come to terms with a future without children; or pursuing hugely expensive egg-freezing / donor sperm ON THEIR OWN because they haven't met a partner willing or able to start a family with.

Massively insensitive article and a bunch of speculative, anti-woman bullshit. FFS do better The Guardian, this is why I don't subscribe.

Honestly, I'm sometimes I'm glad I've had fertility problems and was single into my 30s as it means I'll never fall into this sexist, 'I feel this is the case about other women who should have just got a man and had kids the way I did' judgemental bullshit. To any ladies out there who are doing it tough around these issues, I am sending you love today.

Thank you for the mostly polite responses and it's interesting to read all opinions. I do apologise for not posting the original link- it's my first ever post (though I've commented on others' posts), and forgot to add it before posting.

I've had another close read of it, and concluding that aside from the massive extrapolations between economics and birthrate, the language was extremely general. Way too general. Eg. 'Some people don’t want children... but let’s focus on those who do', rather than 'let's focus on some of those who do', for example. These small semantic issues might seem annoying to some (fine) actually really matter when you're talking about women's issues - which are always intersectional - on a massive platform like The Guardian. It's fine to do that, but for God's sake, say you're doing that! Barbara Ellen usually has a pretty good grasp of this stuff which is why it was so disappointing.

FWIW, I've sent the article to a few friends. Among us, those of us in the 'women who desperately want children but can't due to reasons outside of wider economics' group all had a visceral reaction to the article, which I think is telling.

@ArriettyJones yes the working classes come in all colours, which is why I said that. Yes they're often not white, on balance, if you look at the sample countries Barbara Ellen is referring to.

@echt A heads-up - in my culture the word 'ladies' is an acceptable colloquial term to use between women (as it is in many other cultures, such as African American English, a linguistic field I work in - but you weren't to know that).

*These small semantic issues might seem annoying to some (fine). But they actually really matter...

An edit function would be nice

I really dislike the Guardian these days. There is hostility to women there. My mum still reads it and I ask her what she thinks about various news issues affecting women and she doesn’t know because the Guardian doesn’t cover them. Lying by omission.

Pure misogyny.

Women who throw caution to the wind and couple up young are also then blamed if they happen to end up abused and/or poor.

Women who dont have time to get their career established before parenting small kids are blamed for their financial dependence. That was the "choice" they made. They'll have to live with the consequences (meanwhile, Dad dances off into the financial sunset).

Older mothers are also continually blamed for foetal abnormalities - despite new evidence which implicates sperm age in baby abnormalities or even inherited factors (e.g. autism). Funnily enough, this new evidence has not seen older men told to think twice before fathering children.

We can't win can we?

If you want to read a paper which hates women less, The Times and the FT are better bets.

The Guardian is (nowadays) a disgrace from which I would expect better.

I’m about to go and read the OPINION piece, but wanted to say, I agree with you in principle OP, but YABU to conflate an opinion piece with an article. The two are not the same. Opinion pieces are just glorified letters to the editor. It’s just some plain janes personal opinion and therefore needs no facts or evidence to support it. It also does not reflect the views of the Guardian or their editorial staff. It is not subject to journalistic rules for integrity or evidence. And, it is essential to freedom of speech that a media outlet not censor and publish only majority held opinions. They should publish a variety of opinions, even minority ones like this one is. The only thing they should not publish would be outright hate speech, which this is not an example of.

I met my partner when I was 35. Currently pregnant after 3 miscarriages with my first child. I just turned 39.
Before I met my partner I was in a physically and emotionally abusive marriage to an alcoholic. I just wished I met my partner earlier, but I won’t regret not having a child earlier with my ex.

Welcome to MN, astrogirl99

Now I’ve read the opinion piece and YABVU OP. I agree with WizardofAus
The author did not blame women

The author has clearly stated it’s the fault of bad economic times and society. See quotes below from the article:

“In particular, millennial Britons appeared to be indefinitely deferring children because of practical considerations such as insecure work, low wages and unaffordable housing. Like I say, sensible, but sickening.”

“It’s the opposite: it’s about how, increasingly, one factor (economics) is limiting personal freedoms, stopping people making choices they want to make.”

“By deferring children, women risk later infertility. In this way, intense economic pressure on the young could scupper their chances of motherhood for ever.”

“What a mess – one that predates coronavirus and is yet another pressure on an already beleaguered age group who have every right to feel cursed. In a fully functioning society, younger people wouldn’t be afraid to have babies.”

You really can’t win as a woman, if you have a child young in unstable circumstances then you’re called irresponsible and selfish, if you wait until you’re in a more stable position income, relationship, career, housing etc wise then you’re blamed for “waiting too long”. Maybe we should look at why it takes young people in this country so long to establish themselves if we want to “blame” something for people having children later in life.

I would have loved to have got married and bought a house years ago, but we couldn’t afford it despite both being professionals, we bought our house aged 29 and 30, and will be getting married next year aged 31 & 32, we will have to then save up for another few years to make sure we’re financially secure enough to afford kids. This is the same for many of my friends, it’s just not affordable for most people to be established and ready to have kids in their early twenties or mid twenties. I didn’t even meet my fiancée until I was 25, many people don’t meet “the one” until they’re in their late twenties or thirties, what are they supposed to do? Get pregnant by anyone just so they’re not an “older mother”?

I'd like to see more pieces on why men are deferring fatherhood, the evidence around age related male infertility, and how men need to just get on with it.

Might focus a few minds to settle down and then perhaps more of these feckless women 🤔 might be in a reasonable position to have children.

I hate this sort of narrative around women and fertility. I am pregnant at 29 and the first of my friends (all my age and early thirties). I just happened to be lucky enough that my other half was keen to get married, but a home and start a family whereas their boyfriends are all dragging their feet. Many of these women would like to start a family right now but circumstances don’t permit it. What are women supposed to do when they meet men in their twenties? Demand they commit to children before 30 on the first date? Why isn’t the narrative around this focused on immature men who are delaying commitment and fatherhood to go out and get drunk.

Also, there is a growing body of research to support the link between fathers over 40 and risk of autism in offspring. So no, men should not necessarily delaying parenthood.

Many young men don’t want the aggravation, economic cost etc of having children.. was talking to a 23 year old I know quite well, he is very intelligent and has an amazing talent for what he does, has all the girls after him in normal times, but said to me he cannot understand why people have children. Most of the people in our circle, even older females don’t have them, they chose to have a good job and a life, so he probably sees the other side of life.

@Sunbird24 congratulations on your choice, mine was exactly the same. I had a long term relationship in early twenties, but it just didn’t work. From there on I dated and dated and dated and there was a consistent theme with all the guys I dated and realised I was happier single than trying to be a couple. I have a great career, amazing family and friends and so decided to go it alone at 36. I would have settled down and had a family if I ever met a guy that felt the same. I didn’t as the guys I found interesting were never that way inclined. Best of luck with your journey, I’m just hitting 30 weeks pregnant via sperm donation and no regrets

I think YABU slightly to take such offence to it. I read it the other day and barely raised an eyebrow.

I read it as more being critical of the circumstances that are all too common that cause women to have to delay having kids, rather than being critical of the women themselves.

@PicsInRed and @Hopefulhen yes why isn’t this stuff written about men?! Exactly.

Thanks for the welcome @echt though I’m not new to mumsnet posting, just my first go at starting a new thread.

@Jojo19834 congratulations and best of luck!

@bee222 congratulations. I hope it all goes well for you after a tricky journey getting there. You deserve it 😍

I never understand why these articles always blame the women, when sperm counts in western men have halved since the 70’s. www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/western-sperm-counts-halved-in-last-40-years/

I read it myself, and I can't say I thought BE was blaming women at all! I wondered if I'd read the same opinion piece!

I thought she was laying bare the situation so many women find themselves in, now, that makes childbearing, young (thus more fertile) so difficult.

These stories aren't written about men, because most men are ambivalent about children in my experience. You never see this sort of talk on male-dominated forums (I.e. most of them).

I'm 30 and every male friend I've had that discussion with has basically said that they're expecting to have kids at some point but wouldn't be bothered if they didn't. There's a sort of expectation that they'll meet a woman that they're happy to spend their life with and she'll insist on children as part of the deal.

I agree with PP- I didn't get any sense of judgement from this opinion piece towards women. The closest thing to it is,

'By deferring children, women risk later infertility. In this way, intense economic pressure on the young could scupper their chances of motherhood for ever. Maybe that’s why part of me feels that, if people want babies, they should go ahead and damn the economic consequences. Don’t let something as cold as money stop you. At the same time, I realise that, realistically, for many people, the situation is impossible and issuing vaguely gung-ho advice is unhelpful, bordering on offensive.'

And even then she clearly doesn't blame the women.