Mum of baby with Down's syndrome suing government over abortion law

[SharonasCorona]

The mother of a baby with Down's syndrome is suing the government for allowing disabled children to be aborted after 24 weeks of pregnancy.

After 24 weeks a woman can have an abortion if she is at risk of grave physical and mental injury, or there is a severe foetal abnormality, including Down's syndrome.

Maire Lea-Wilson says she was encouraged in hospital to abort her son, who is now 11 months old. She felt the assumption was "that you would want to abort a child with Down's syndrome".

I’m in pro-choice, but I didn’t realise you could abort disabled children until birth. It’s shocking that a woman with a healthy baby with Down’s Syndrome was encouraged to have an abortion, right up until she carried the baby full term.

How Dare she want to take the choice away from other women she made her choice now let others make there’s.

The point which you’re still missing is this woman was encouraged to abort.

Define "encouraged". I really would want to know exactly what happened. If, for instance, someone laid before her all the facts including the risks that her child might be lo functioning, might have heart problems, might have DS with autism etc - that isn't encouraging anything, it's simply helping her to make a fully informed decision.

I always remember a dad on a tv program about nicu, they were told their baby had Down’s syndrome and thought they could handle that. What they didn’t expect was months of watching their baby have repeated open heart surgeries, pain and suffering before passing away (having never left nicu). I remember so clearly the dad who loves his son so much crying saying if they had known what his baby would go through then they would of aborted. You never see families like theirs featured in the arguement, it’s always happy smiling Articulate kids or adults with DS

I think this is nothing short of disgusting. How dare she.

She made her decision, which is her right & now wants to take away the same rights from other women. I can’t begin to understand her motives and I sincerely hope she fails.

When I was pregnant with ds (now 2.5) I said to dh that I wanted the downs screening. I know from family friends how hard they’ve had it with their kids both with ds (now both in their late 20’s). I also said to him depending on the likelihood of ds having it I wouldn’t go through with the pregnancy.

Dh disagreed. He said we’d manage. I could give up work to be a carer etc. My point was - I didn’t want to manage. I didn’t want to do that. Selfish or not.

We agreed to have the test and would discuss the outcome if we needed to.

Thankfully (because it would have been a difficult situation ) we didn’t have to have the conversation.

When I fell unexpectedly pregnant with dd (when ds was 18m) I was given the option of termination by my gp. I considered it, as timing wasn’t right, but given my age (now 35) I also figured the what ifs. What if this was my last shot at a second child etc.

I have said to dh that no more children. And he knows what I’d do if we had a future mishap. He’s not happy about it but my decision is based on so so many things. My own mental health has suffered since having the dc, especially with unexpected Dd, financially we can’t afford it and physically I don’t think I could go through oregnancy healthiky again.

If any one bothered to look, a quick Google would show you articles based on women who have been bullied by medical professionals into a unwanted abortion all because their baby had Down Syndrome. This constant bullying at every medical appointment, would wear anyone down. A woman's informed choice is taken away by not providing information about the positives.
The problem here is not the abortion limit, its the constant harassment to abort, abort, abort.
I don't agree with abortion after 12 weeks, buts that's my opinion, but I do agree a woman should be able to make their own decisions and not be pushed into it because it's a drain on resources.

Down's syndrome shouldn't be encouraged as I would class it as a mild disability, physically and intellectually (I read this) and it poses no harm for mother and baby at birth

Like most conditions of this type, it's a spectrum. Some children will be quite severely affected, others won't. It frequently comes with other difficulties, e.g. congenital heart defects, hearing loss, poor vision, cataracts, hip problems, leukemia, chronic constipation, sleep apnoea,
dementia, hypothyroidism, autism, and Alzheimer’s disease later in life.

People with Down's are also more prone to infections, e.g. UTIs, respiratory tract infections, etc. For children with severe heart defects, it does indeed impose a quite serious risk at birth.

I have a very able, younger brother, who has Down syndrome. He works, plays for a local football team, has a girlfriend and a season ticket holder for his favourite team. He also goes out drinking with our other brothers.
On the other hand I have taught children with Down syndrome in the past who have been non-verbal, violent and incontinent. Some have sadly, been very poorly with heart conditions.

What I'm saying is, just like disabilities like other disabilities such as autism and cerebral palsy, there is such a wide spectrum of how a person will be affected by the condition. Nobody knows how much. Parents to be have to consider how they'd cope mentally and emotionally, how it would affect finances if one parent had to give up work, how it would affect their relationship and other children involved and if it would affect their quality of life.

It is not anybody else's decision to make, as to wether a parent chooses to terminate a pregnancy other than the parents. The medical experts will obviously give the worst case scenario, that is their job. They will give the facts. Nobody should judge a parents decision to terminate, no matter if you wouldn't make that choice. No parent wants to terminate they just have to do what is right for them. It is a hard enough time for them without others judging them.

say 34 weeks should be permitted for any woman. it’s up to birth to also allow abortion if the mothers life is in danger. One example of that might be an underage woman who is pregnant via rape and who conceals it. I’d like her to be able to access an abortion even after 34 weeks.

I suspect this woman’s experience is not unique. There was a documentary a couple of years ago on how there will be no babies with Down’s Syndrome in the near future.

Are you referring to the Sally Phillips documentary? IIRC, that was a deeply one sided piece of work featuring only, as DaisyDreaming states, "....happy smiling articulate kids or adults with DS" . The myriad of conditions that can come with DS which JudyCoolibar refers to were not. Nor were the parents who remain carers for the rest of their lives. Nor were the siblings who have to take on the responsibilities of looking after their DS brothers and sisters. Nor indeed, the families who are not well connected and wealthy like Ms Phillips, and who face a lifetime of financial hardship and lives not lived to their full potential (usually women's lives), because of the burden of full time care.

I feel sick at thinking about the physical pain and discomfort the termination process would have for any baby being aborted after 24 weeks. Surely this isn't a painless process for a baby?
Testing can be carried out early in pregnancy to determine ds and support and info given at this stage should be provided in the case of ds. It is bound to be a very frightening and unknown circumstance for parents to face. They should be encouraged to speak to families and support groups to help with an informed choice.
Abortion after 24 weeks does not sit easy with me but fortunately I have not been in that situation. Nevertheless developments mean parents have an understanding of their unborn baby's health early on.
Also I'd like to add, having worked with young people with ds there certainly are different levels of ability. But like all individuals each baby born with ds will be unique.

I am most definitely pro choice and fully support a woman's right to do what she wishes with her body and baby.

With DC2 I had the test around 10 weeks to check for all the trisomies (including Down's)- DH and I had discussed it prior to testing, and we were both in agreement that we would terminate if positive for any of the trisomies.

We would have known this at around 12 weeks, think it was 2 weeks for results to come back.

I do not agree that a woman's right to make this decision should be taken away based on another woman's experience. It would be interesting to know more about what was said and by whom etc.

Excellent point @barshinskaya

I thought the Sally Phillips documentary was awful, verging on pro-life propaganda. How someone so biased (she has a son with DS and has a strong Christian faith) was allowed to front such a one sided BBC documentary I’ll never know.

I can see action to deal with heavy-handed medical professionals who can't keep their own bias in check.

I don't think this lawsuit is the best way to go about that or would in any way improve the situation of those who deal with those types. I really don't get the logic of how this discrimination lawsuit connects with that issue. It's not like abortion is the only time this type of pressure about options happens. Whether that happened in this case or not, there are plenty of examples of various types of ill-treatment that could be better talked about through other means.

@belfasteast had no idea parents would chose to withdraw nutrition from their child. Can't believe it's socially acceptable. Wow. When does this happen? Just because this is wrong, doesn't mean abortion isn't wrong. They are just 2 different atrocities.

Save us from the God Squad!

It is all about the dangers of religion. I cannot see anything particularly sacred about a bunch of cells or even anything sacred about life.

As ever, the Dutch are ahead of us with the Groningen Protocol for neonatal euthanasia, and more secular countries seem to have eliminated Down syndrome altogether. In Denmark I think it is almost percent and in Iceland 98%, and then in Catholic France becomes 77% and in the USA 67%.

I wonder what Dawkins would say, but it seems to be the sentimental, stupid religious types who want to impose on women’s bodies with a grudge against termination or neonatal euthanasia.

It is bound to be a very frightening and unknown circumstance for parents to face. They should be encouraged to speak to families and support groups to help with an informed choice.

So the "right" kind of encouragement is okay?

@Janet withdrawing nutrition is considered a palliative pathway. I'm not in any way saying one is good/bad, but society views them very differently, when really they are both in effect terminating a life.

@PippaHugo Every biology textbook says life begins at conception. Though I personally would say abortion shouldn't be allowed once the nervous system is developed and the baby can feel pain. I think life is precious. I only can justify abortion to myself (morally) when the mothers life is in danger.

@belfasteast can you tell me more about it? When does this happen? And how old are they kids? I didn't know this happened.

It’s shocking that a woman with a healthy baby with Down’s Syndrome was encouraged to have an abortion, right up until she carried the baby full term.

Why is that shocking, OP? What is wrong with that?

I hope this case gets thrown out at the outset as being completely irrelevant. If she has a gripe with individual health staff, then bring it up against them but to think that she has the right to change the law to suit her is beyond arrogant.

@bindibindi DS is the reason amnio tests exist; to prevent DS births. And DS is a severe disability, nothing mild about it at all.