Mum of baby with Down's syndrome suing government over abortion law

[SharonasCorona]

The mother of a baby with Down's syndrome is suing the government for allowing disabled children to be aborted after 24 weeks of pregnancy.

After 24 weeks a woman can have an abortion if she is at risk of grave physical and mental injury, or there is a severe foetal abnormality, including Down's syndrome.

Maire Lea-Wilson says she was encouraged in hospital to abort her son, who is now 11 months old. She felt the assumption was "that you would want to abort a child with Down's syndrome".

I’m in pro-choice, but I didn’t realise you could abort disabled children until birth. It’s shocking that a woman with a healthy baby with Down’s Syndrome was encouraged to have an abortion, right up until she carried the baby full term.

I lost my son to Patau Syndrome last year. He had so many issues he just wasn't meant for this world. He died during labour.
There are children alive today with Patau Syndrome but they have severe disability and are severely life limited.
The right to abortion HAS to be there.
I think this woman's issue is not so much that she was offered but it sounds like her medical team didn't listen to her and pressured her when they should have listened. The option should be given but not repeated. But I do agree this should not be debated in court it should be discussed with her medical team with a formal complaint raised if she chooses.

@malificent7

I think that people who abort for Downs are cold hearted ...i just couldn't do it.

And I think people who don’t abort for known DS are unbelievably selfish.

So sorry for your loss @Hhusky

imo abortion should be allowed up to birth for all pregnancies.

I have had a Downs pregnancy and an Edwards syndrome pregnancy. The Downs baby died in utero, the Edwards pregnancy I aborted before the half way stage. I’m grateful I had the option to abort at any stage as the Edwards diagnosed baby was very ill indeed.

I think Downs Syndrome is one of those disabilities that can be very mild on end and extremely severe the other. Because of this I can understand why it’s so emotive.

@SharonasCorona

But none of that changes the fact that she still had the choice, she chose not to abort. She now wants to take that choice away from other women.

Would you say the same to women in Northern Ireland who can’t have an abortion? After all, they have the ‘choice’ to travel to Liverpool, right?

Yes! I would, if they were suppporting further restrictions! You seem to have reversed yourself there!

@SharonasCorona

The point which you’re still missing is this woman was encouraged to abort. That’s not right.

No. She was given the option to abort in line with the law, and health care professionals provided her with information about the expectations of life with a Downs Syndrome child. That is not the same thing as "encouraging". It was always up to her to decide. As it should be for every woman.

@SharonasCorona

The mother of a baby with Down's syndrome is suing the government for allowing disabled children to be aborted after 24 weeks of pregnancy.

After 24 weeks a woman can have an abortion if she is at risk of grave physical and mental injury, or there is a severe foetal abnormality, including Down's syndrome.

Maire Lea-Wilson says she was encouraged in hospital to abort her son, who is now 11 months old. She felt the assumption was "that you would want to abort a child with Down's syndrome".

I’m in pro-choice, but I didn’t realise you could abort disabled children until birth. It’s shocking that a woman with a healthy baby with Down’s Syndrome was encouraged to have an abortion, right up until she carried the baby full term.

The reason is because downs syndrome is often not found until the 20 week scan, and it can take weeks to double-check and do all the investigations to rule it out (or not). 24 weeks isn’t birth - while many kids are born at this time and can survive with medical treatment that shouldn’t be used as a stick to beat women who don’t want a child with DS. Even babies aborted or miscarriages earlier, while called ‘fetuses’, are often born alive. So there’s no difference really.

@Treaclepie19

(And no it wasn't downs in my case, but a lot are downplaying how serious the complications can be)

And also the life long demands. Who employs them? Cares for them?

I know a few people with Down's syndrome. Family friends. They are both in their late 40s / early 50s now and they are remarkable, incredibly loving people.

They are both part of extremely supportive, involved extended families. And to be honest I just cannot see how they would have managed if this had not been the case. Not everybody has access to the this type of family support and the thought of these people being left at the mercy of the care system is heartbreaking.

They are people who will need support their entire lives and some people (a lot of people) are not in a position to offer that right now never mind for the next 50+ years.

Physically, my two Down's Syndrome friends have been kept on very strict diet / exercise regimes by their families and doctors so they have been physically very fit their whole lives, which had helped when they have had the bowel / heart problems associated with Downs. However, in their early 50s they are slowing down a lot. They are also showing signs of dementia. Their parents are in their 80s. There is a lot of love there but it is an incredibly difficult and sad situation for all.

If this woman is in a position to offer this support to her child for the rest of their life then that's great. I cannot understand why she is meddling in the rights of other women. She has benefited from having the right to make her choice, why is she trying to deny others the same right? Is it a knee jerk reaction as she feels that the right to abort due to Downs is a slight against her son?

I actually saw a documentary a few years ago, I think it was Sally Phillips from Smack the Pony? From what I remember she has a lovely son with Downs and she was asking "do we really want a world without Downs Syndrome?" I think Sally Phillips is a very bright woman but I can remember watching and thinking "but this isn't about you". She seemed to take the whole thing very personally against her son and that people would be thinking "he shouldn't have been born". Which of course isn't the case. He was a lovely child and was very well cared for and looked like he was enjoying life greatly. But there seemed to be a lack of awareness that not everybody can offer this.

@SharonasCorona

As I said, I posted following a Sky News report. I’ll report back, but it say that she knew throughout the pregnancy. If they don’t mention it, then happy to hold my hands up.

However original point stands, there should be no pressure to abort.

You can’t be pro choice and support this woman’s attempt to remove the choices she had from other women. If she didn’t find out until late in the pregnancy as now seems likely, she chose no testing at the earlier stages. Also her choice, but clearly she has a strong stance on the subject. It doesn’t matter anyway, as checking throughout the pregnancy that her circumstances or feelings on the matter hadn’t changed is the epitome of choice. If she didn’t like it she should address her particular case. Also ‘felt pressured’ isn’t the same as ‘was pressured’. She has an agenda, and is likely backed in her court case by a forced birth organisation.

@justanotherneighinparadise

I have had a Downs pregnancy and an Edwards syndrome pregnancy. The Downs baby died in utero, the Edwards pregnancy I aborted before the half way stage. I’m grateful I had the option to abort at any stage as the Edwards diagnosed baby was very ill indeed.

I think Downs Syndrome is one of those disabilities that can be very mild on end and extremely severe the other. Because of this I can understand why it’s so emotive.

Sorry that this happened to you

A friend had a baby with Edwards syndrome in similar circumstances. It was an awful decision to have to make but the important thing is that impartial support is available to women who are faced with these decisions. I understand that the woman bringing the case is upset but the quality of support should be the focus.

@malificent7

Sorry for peole who feel they are struggling though...my comment was inconsiderate. Perhaps cold hearted was the wrong phrase.

You think? 🤔

Unless you've been through it yourself you can't say what you'd do in that situation

Thank you.

I think if I’d had to have made the decision about aborting the Downs Syndrome baby I would still have terminated the pregnancy due to the pressure it would have put on my other children and the potential for them to have been left in a caring role once I had passed. I do know a lady who is the same age as me with a DS child the same age as my youngest and her older children do a lot of the caring already due to her own health issues.

@NTScannegative

Abortion should be up to the mother carrying the child as they will be the ones spending the rest of their lives caring for that child. I had a baby with DS which none of my tests detected even though I opted for all the tests. Now my life will be spent either caring for that child for forever as most with DS cannot live fully independent lives or placing the child for adoption. I 100% would have aborted had I known as I’m not cut out to be a caregiver for a child in an adult’s body forever. Every woman should have the right to decide for themselves regardless of gestational age.

This thread has been resurrected by this post. NTScannedNegative Whatever one's beliefs on abortion, life must be very hard for you.

Thank you @treaclepie19 xx

I think the main issue is, abortion isn't offered, it's encouraged. I've never heard a parent of a baby with downsyndrome say "we were told abortion was an option, we said no so they focused on supporting us with our child." It's always "They wouldn't stop saying they wanted to abort our child, every single time we saw them we had to argue to continue the pregnancy."

Personally I don't think you should be able to abort a late pregnancy unless the child is going to suffer and have no quality of life (I also believe in euthanasia, if someone is suffering, let them sleep), that's not the case with downsyndrome. You wouldn't kill a baby once it's born and crying, you wouldn't look at a preterm baby in an incubator and even consider killing it, and if someone did you'd be horrified.

I remember deaf people having a similar thing with being classed as a disability, it must be horrifying to know that the world thinks you're so wrong you have less right to live than everyone else.

One of my pet peeves in life is the weird way people view and talk about people with learning disabilities but especially downs syndrome

These campaigns are always about downs syndrome because for some reason people with downs get shoved in some sort of stereotype where they are just "the most loving" people and "always happy" and seen almost as a some sort of "other" human more akin to a cute puppy then a real life person. Campaigners can show a few heart warming videos, a couple of pictures of cute babies. One end of the spectrum gets totally forgotten about because they don't fit the sunny stereotypes, In the same way people with autism can have their experiences overshadowed by peoples expectations that they will be a socially awkward genius.

I agree with pp about Sally Phillips. I've listened to a couple of her interviews and campaigns about her son and its seems bonkers to me that she chose to have her son but feels that other people shouldn't have any choice because it worked out for her. She talks about her struggles which are very valid, but seems to lack any form of awareness of what things might be like for people with significantly less resources (not just financial but in every single way from less supportive work situations, families, inadequate housing etc) and/or with a child with much much higher needs than her son.

A baby with Downs Syndrome isn't healthy. It's a condition that carries physical as well as mental disabilities.

Adults with Downs Syndrome face a difficult life. Once their parents can't care for them any more, they are left to the mercies of adult social care, the funding of which is far from certain. Or the burden is placed on siblings.

They also face increasing medical issues as they grow up. I do think parents should be encouraged to think about the child's life beyond childhood and whether that is a life they want to give their child.

Everyone has a right to choice.

Down syndrome is only one example of disability and even in that case there can be a range of disability. A lot of pregnancies where the baby is severely disabled will miscarry naturally in any case. In some instances of DS there can be very severe disabilities.

It can reduce the risk to the mother having a controlled termination earlier rather than carrying a baby to term that in some cases will not be able to survive after birth.

Every family needs to consider their own circumstances.

@Tinydinosaur

I think the main issue is, abortion isn't offered, it's encouraged. I've never heard a parent of a baby with downsyndrome say "we were told abortion was an option, we said no so they focused on supporting us with our child." It's always "They wouldn't stop saying they wanted to abort our child, every single time we saw them we had to argue to continue the pregnancy."

Personally I don't think you should be able to abort a late pregnancy unless the child is going to suffer and have no quality of life (I also believe in euthanasia, if someone is suffering, let them sleep), that's not the case with downsyndrome. You wouldn't kill a baby once it's born and crying, you wouldn't look at a preterm baby in an incubator and even consider killing it, and if someone did you'd be horrified.

I remember deaf people having a similar thing with being classed as a disability, it must be horrifying to know that the world thinks you're so wrong you have less right to live than everyone else.

Deafness is a disability. It's all very well being positive about differences but you have to be realistic.

@justanotherneighinparadise

Thank you.

I think if I’d had to have made the decision about aborting the Downs Syndrome baby I would still have terminated the pregnancy due to the pressure it would have put on my other children and the potential for them to have been left in a caring role once I had passed. I do know a lady who is the same age as me with a DS child the same age as my youngest and her older children do a lot of the caring already due to her own health issues.

A recent (in last 12 months I think) article on the BBC website on this topic had the story of a lady with an adult child with downs syndrome, as a PP said the focus was all on how the child was such a loving person etc and one of the things that jumped out at me was the parent saying how much the siblings loved them and how they were all willing to carry on caring for their sibling when she was no longer alive. So much wrong with this I don't really know where to start.

As above, my termination was at 22+4. I had to force myself to go through with it. I didn't want to. Not one bit. I loved and still love my little boy. I didn't want him to suffer greatly, die in a more painful way once born or have to spend his whole life in hospital.
So yeah, call me what you like. I've learnt to give no fucks what people think now.

I believe in a women’s right to choose however I do have issue with cases such as my sister
She knew she was having a baby with Down’s syndrome and had made the decision to keep her. She had worked with people with Down’s syndrome for years and was prepared for what was coming (as much as anyone can be)
She was badgered right until term to abort the child and given all doom and gloom. She had had she been a single mum with no partner to support her she says she may well have given in. That is not supporting a women’s right to choose

This included on appointment when her husband could not make it with the doctor and two midwifes in a room when on and on and her for about an hour.