Mum of baby with Down's syndrome suing government over abortion law

[SharonasCorona]

The mother of a baby with Down's syndrome is suing the government for allowing disabled children to be aborted after 24 weeks of pregnancy.

After 24 weeks a woman can have an abortion if she is at risk of grave physical and mental injury, or there is a severe foetal abnormality, including Down's syndrome.

Maire Lea-Wilson says she was encouraged in hospital to abort her son, who is now 11 months old. She felt the assumption was "that you would want to abort a child with Down's syndrome".

I’m in pro-choice, but I didn’t realise you could abort disabled children until birth. It’s shocking that a woman with a healthy baby with Down’s Syndrome was encouraged to have an abortion, right up until she carried the baby full term.

@SharonasCorona that’s probably because everybody has their own opinion. But to be cruel and assume everyone should pick the same choice as you isn’t really fair is it also it does seem it’s based on her own negative experience.

KKSlider

I think Timekeeper is rightly being questioned on her views.

Giving parents, especially mothers the choice will always be the right thing in my opinion. Essentially forcing mothers into abortion by withdrawing care and benefits is awful. Women should be supported whether they choose to go ahead with a pregnancy or abort a pregnancy with a disabled child or for any other reason. I’m very thankful to live in a place where law matches my views.

I said in my post that I don't agree with withdrawing benefits and social care in case where a woman chooses to continue her pregnancy as that is coercion, not choice.

KKSlider

Yes but you also said that Timekeeper was getting a bit of a rough ride. With her opinions, I’m surprised she’s got off so lightly knowing what Mumsnet poster are usually like. I was just stating why I think she hasn’t had a rough ride at all.

She wants to rake away women’s choice by making them not be able to cope. Vile.

*take

Name changed for this

I was in this position, I went to my scan at 12 weeks to be told there was a massive amount of fluid behind baby’s neck, was given a CVS that same day, results came back 3 days later and were positive for Down syndrome. I was 28, had 1 child already and was petrified. My decision was made before I even had the results.
I terminated the pregnancy.

This woman was given her options, She chose to continue the pregnancy which is her right, but she has no right to try and take the choice away from others. I am SO grateful that I found out so early and that I was NEVER judged for my decision by anyone I had to see. The staff were amazing. I have never regretted the termination. Maybe she was asked 3 times because when I had my termination I was told by a midwife that 90% of the women they see who face the same situation choose to terminate.

I think her suing the government is absolutely ridiculous to be honest, I am eternally grateful for my right to choose if I wanted to continue the pregnancy or not.

Yes but you also said that Timekeeper was getting a bit of a rough ride

For the point she was making that it should not be considered vile to terminate a pregnancy purely on the grounds of disability.

I didn't say I agreed with the rest of what she was saying, give her as short a shrift as you like for all of that, but no one should be made to feel guilty for not wanting to continue a pregnancy where they know the child is disabled.

Essentially forcing mothers into abortion by withdrawing care and benefits
What?

So, yeah. Kinda personal to me. The fluffy cutesy 'happy DS' image really upsets and frustrates both myself and some people who have actual experience in

There I have fixed it for you Time

Your posts imply you see a person with DS as being DS when they are a person first and that is what many see as positive because they are not their disability, they are a person, a child, a sibling, a family member, valued like the rest of us. And I also have experience, like you but I do not share your views.

I also think the woman's case is bizarre and she should complain to her midwife unit/hospital regarding her care. Feeling pressured is very wrong but this case makes no sense.

What?

It’s very obvious that if you tell a mother that if they go ahead with a pregnancy of a baby with DS, that they will not receive any disability or healthcare benefits, then many will feel they have no choice but to terminate the pregnancy.

For the point she was making that it should not be considered vile to terminate a pregnancy purely on the grounds of disability.

I don’t think it’s vile to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of disability is vile. I think trying to make women feel they have no choice but to abort is vile.

Every woman should have a choice and feel supported regardless of the choice they make.

My first sentence should read,

I don’t think it’s vile to terminate a pregnancy on the grounds of disability.

zombie

That was a truly vile post.

I expected to see people minimising the trauma of having doctors continually remind expectant mothers that their babies can be killed, even when the age of viability has come and gone and a nursery is prepared and the suggestion (sorry reminder sorry option) was also put forward at the last appointment, regardless of the patient's clear goal to seek medical care for herself and her baby. I did not expect to see anyone suggesting that the (a) a DS baby should be killed because it's clearly not 'healthy' and (b) it's good for a Dr to put a patient under pressure to have this done because it is medical care. That is abhorrent and a totally different suggestion from most others on this thread. Having a life terminated because quality of life would be low and suffering high is not medical care except in extreme cases. Whatever your views on DS, this is not one of those cases where there is a clear cut line to take and medics shouldn't be taking it. It's up to parents to decide. How dare you.

time No, not women. Just you. Your views on disability are not related to your gender as far as I can see, just your moral compass.

Don't get it as she will be denying others a choice
If she was supposedly under pressure or whatever to abort she should be reporting those that made her feel like it, as I'm not sure many Drs would do this
I don't think many choose abortions that late unless major issues which haven't been picked up earlier ,
But a choice should be allowed

this is not one of those cases where there is a clear cut line to take and medics shouldn't be taking it. It's up to parents to decide. How dare you.
Keep your hair on. Parents are deciding. Helping people make an informed choice is not force. It's a positive thing. The choice remains with the parents.

Oh come on - doctors are hardly on a mass eugenics campaign

@Janet38373 I'm pm'ing you.

YANBU it’s a disgrace

I was asked around 4/5 times within a 15 minute appointment if I was sure I definitely didn’t want the screening test for Down syndrome. I was also made to initial my notes so they had proof I’d declined the screening, I hadn’t had to do that with DC1 when I declined the screening tests! I’m pretty thick skinned and let most things go over my head but this really annoyed me and for some people this would have made them feel pressured to have a screening test they had already researched and decided against!

That's so they didn't then find the trust being sued on the grounds that they failed to offer the tests. Someone I know refused the early ones, didn't turn up for the 20 week anomaly scan and then was distraught to find at birth that the child had severe abnormalities - the child suffered horrifically until death. In the following period, the parents then wanted to sue the hospital for not telling them the 20 week scan was for more than finding out the sex.

Another was prepared, or so they thought - for having a child with DS, so didn't continue with additional tests, as they thought that they didn't want to terminate, so there was no point. The baby's undiagnosed until birth issues led to him dying in under a year after a lot of painful intervention. One of the parents confided later on that had they known the severity of the issues, they might have decided differently, but all they had ever seen was the happy, loving, attractive children image and thought that this was what they would get.

This woman made her choice. She was given the choice and made it. Fine. Her body, her choice.

She has no business deciding for others what they can do, cannot do or what they should feel about something inside their body.

@MitziK I already have a child with Down syndrome.
I had discussed it at my booking appointment in length, the midwife had noted down that we’d discussed screening and I was declining screening for T21 in my handheld notes. To then go for my 12 week scan and be asked so many times was unnecessary, they could see what the midwife had written and only needed to confirm once that I still didn’t want the screening not keep asking multiple times.

Look at it logically, why would Maire be upset at being asked if she wanted a termination at 34 weeks if that was the first time she was made aware baby had Down’s Syndrome?

Because she was 34 weeks pregnant, feels opposed to an abortion at such a gestation and thus is of the opinion they shouldn't have asked?

I was asked around 4/5 times within a 15 minute appointment if I was sure I definitely didn’t want the screening test for Down syndrome. I was also made to initial my notes so they had proof I’d declined the screening

A woman successfully sued the NHS for not carrying out screening during her pregnancy. She subsequently gave birth to a baby with DS. She says if she had known she would have terminated the pregnancy.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-49980157

The High Court in London heard Ms Mordel initially asked for a Down's syndrome screening but when later asked by a sonographer if she wanted one she declined

Therefore, a scan was carried out without a screening.

Giving judgment on Tuesday, Mr Justice Jay found Ms Mordel had misunderstood the question.

You can’t blame individual HCPs for covering their arse when it comes to these things.

I know @Haworthia. As I said in my last post, I already have a child with Down syndrome.
I had discussed it at my booking appointment in length, the midwife had noted down that we’d discussed screening and I was declining screening for T21 in my handheld notes. To then go for my 12 week scan and be asked so many times was unnecessary, they could see what the midwife had written and only needed to confirm once that I still didn’t want the screening not keep asking multiple times.
For someone else this might have made them question their decision to decline the screening or may have made them feel pressured to have a test they didn’t want.