To think the future for women in the work place is looking pretty bleak at the moment?

[KittyRainbow]

Just that really. While I understand why certain measures are being taken to slow the spread of C19. I am struggling with how much more it is affecting me than my husband.

We both work full time, and have 3 DC (nursery, primary and early secondary age) We have always had a pretty equal approach to childcare, taking turns with sick days, appointments etc but he does earn 3 times what I do (despite me having more education and better qualifications than him)

My eldest (12) will not be going back to school until September and we have been told that it will likely be part time in school, part time learning at home.
Likewise my middle, who starts reception in September. Again we've been told it will likely be part time. My youngest attends 2 childcare settings. She is only allowed to return to one for now and neither can take her full time.

My husband is due back at work from furlough FT from June 1st. My work have been great, I am currently working FT at home and they've been very understanding so far (helps that he's been on furlough as he has been able to take the children away for conference calls etc) and have no concerns about me being lone carer from June.

BUT they've said that they will expect people to be back in the office from Sept. Most of my colleagues are men and are fine with that.

I will not be able to do that unless schools and nurseries go back FT. Almost every woman I know is in the same boat. Even my secondary age child will need input at home. There is 0 chance she will sit and do school work if she is left at home alone. The smaller two obviously need constant supervision. Husband's work cannot be done from home. Mine can but not with the children around.

AIBU to think that all of the PT school/childcare etc is going to affect women far more than men, and to think that moving forward we will see a trend towards far less women in the workplace?

But after seeing the usual bullshit about future taxpayers and yet another parent accusing me of being rude to them, I just think fuck it.
Fight your own battles. I can't be bothered.

Nobodies asking you to "fight our battles"

not in the same position as the boy who went to Eton? Yet pelleas would argue it was his "choice" he could have gone to school, after all schooling is available to all in the uk, and taken a loan and gone to university etc etc.

Now you're putting words into my mouth that I haven't said and wouldn't say. I don't actually agree with private education - I think it makes resources less likely to reach state schools because people of influence don't have to worry about how much funding is given to the local comprehensive - they can just bung their children off to private school and let the state school rot. If state schools were better resourced, there'd be less chance of the impoverished children slipping through the net and if private schools were abolished, although it wouldn't remove the wealth divide, it would at least be a step towards greater equality of education.

And if your partner doesn't rise to the occasion and says "this doesn't make sense, I earn a £250k a year and you earn £25k, why don't you take a couple of years out till kids are in nursery?" Do you Ltb because he earned too much?

No, you don't ltb. You say 'I appreciate that but I'd like the opportunity to build my own career, so let's both go part-time'. Ideally you have that conversation before you decide to start a family with him. Or, you say 'Yes, fine' because you like the lifestyle the £250k offers you too much to let your husband go P/T - but then you don't complain about women being disadvantaged by being 'forced' to pick up childcare.

I've done all the right things with my career and am in a reasonable position because I have a business but the reality is that if I don't sometimes prioritise my child or elderly parent(s) then someone will come to harm. It's a "choice" to leave someone to suffer but not a great one....

Leighhalfpennysthigh

Wouldn't want you fighting this battle, not exactly allied. How about genuine neutrality, rather than arguing for the MRA team. We'll settle for benign absence.

I actually had a little bit of sympathy with Dominic Cummings (because I live a long way from relatives too & I have no idea what to do if I got too ill to care for DC).

But now it looks like it was just because his WIFE was ill, not him. Hence why he was well enough to drive to Durham... In other words, his job was just too important for HIM to do the childcare while she was ill. That says everything about how and why women and women’s jobs are (again) seen as of unequal importance.

How about genuine neutrality, rather than arguing for the MRA team.

How on earth is it being an MRA to want greater equality for women in the workplace, and to want to see women's careers and salaries on a par in magnitude with those of men?

@Pelleas
I wasn't even talking about education private or state so I think you're being deliberately obtuse here! I was drawing a parallel on how many things are not a choice

Re part time: there is no such option in either my DH or my job. It's full time, working at least 12 hours a day, travelling.

Now what's my choice?

Hire a full time live in nanny you say? My choice not to have kids brought up by a nanny or send them off to boarding school right? I didn't consider that a choice.

To be clear: I worked very hard for my job, and I can't wait to go back to work. But I didn't want my children to be brought up by a nanny. And my DH didn't want to quit.

One of us had to. And yes, I chose it was me. And I'm planning to go back to work now that kids are school age, but the situation with covid19 has now made that much more difficult for me.

Do I think I can now go back to work with no childcare available? No.

Do I think women are getting more impacted because of the situation? Yes because regardless of whether one thinks it was their choice or not to end up there, most mothers are the childcare providers/earning less than husbands and will end up leaving their jobs.

It's fine to want that but it's not fine to tell Women everything is their own fault and it's all down to their own stupid decisions. It's offensive.

I was drawing a parallel on how many things are not a choice

And I am saying that we need to start making different choices on a wider scale to bring about societal equality. At the moment too many people make the easy 'I'm all right Jack' choices.

Everytime,I read these threads,I think there is a massive ' gap in the market ' here that some joined up thinking would help with,my 18 year old dd and all her friends 18-20 are off uni and doing nothing.Mydd is perfectly capable of looking after younger children has a dbs and could do with the money and activity. One young adult coming into your house,is of minimal risk and also flexible in terms of times.
Surely a way could be worked out for this to be organised as part of the answer?

And I am saying that we need to start making different choices on a wider scale to bring about societal equality.

I agree with this but the way women now work has transformed over the past couple of generations, whereas what men do has stayed pretty much the same. The structure of work needs to change and unfortunately it's mainly men who are in control of decisions about that.

One of us had to. And yes, I chose it was me. And I'm planning to go back to work now that kids are school age, but the situation with covid19 has now made that much more difficult for me. Do I think I can now go back to work with no childcare available? No.

So you have shouldered your share of the childcare burden - why isn't it your turn now to go back to work while your husband quits to look after the children?

Surely a way could be worked out for this to be organised as part of the answer?

I agree. I would be happy with that. I'd rather they had at least one other child too because of socialisation etc.

But I have no idea how it would work because they're essentially a nanny which you have to employ I believe which causes it's own issues.

How on earth is it being an MRA to want greater equality for women in the workplace, and to want to see women's careers and salaries on a par in magnitude with those of men

As we don't have children we can't possibly understand the mental gymnastics needed to come to this conclusion. And, you know what, I'm very pleased I don't.

I'm done now. Can't argue with stupid.

So you have shouldered your share of the childcare burden - why isn't it your turn now to go back to work while your husband quits to look after the children

He doesn't want to. What do you do?

He doesn't want to. What do you do?

Why is it only the man who is allowed to be the immoveable rock in these situations? What about she doesn't want to. What do you do?

How on earth is it being an MRA to want greater equality for women in the workplace, and to want to see women's careers and salaries on a par in magnitude with those of men?

It's MRA to ignore structural inequality and blame "choice", when no choice is made in a vacuum, and "choice" made within structural inequality is as much "choice" as a Hong Kong election.

It's similar to blaming individual "choice" for slavery or unequal civil rights. Yes, the individual could attempt to throw off the yoke and rebel. So, is it then their "fault" that slavery or victimisation persists? The problem is that everyone else has to do so at the same time otherwise that first rebel will be crushed and punished harshly - along with their family. Most will attempt to survive - and ensure the survival of their children - inside that system.

This is why women work within the structure we presently have. Change will require the unequivocal support of women of all statuses and will also require the fullsome physical and political support of the political power majority - men. Both are presently lacking.

Why is it only the man who is allowed to be the immoveable rock in these situations? What about she doesn't want to. What do you do?

What do you suggest Pelleas?

Well there would have to be a compromise,worked out between them
If my DH said 'well I am going back to work and you can look after the DC' our marriage would be over

This is exactly what has happened in India.

There is a reality check though that most very high paying jobs are incompatible with part-time working. There is a ceiling point. I’m struggling with part-time at a middle management level. I know to progress I’ll need to up my days but we’re at a point as a family where time is more valuable than money. All of our lives are likely to get worse if I went for a bigger job at the moment.

There's no reason women are effected more. Just read the other thread.

Of course there is. There shouldn't be, but there is.

It's the same reason men don't become SAHP, or take more paternity leave. It's the same reason as hoc care when kids are off school falls to mum. It's the same reason earning potential drops off when we hit 30.

Men earn more money and in the majority of families it makes more financial sense for women to pick up the slack with childcare.

Men's careers are considered more important.

Men are generally employed by older men who generally are of the opinion they shouldn't put family before work and make it harder for Male employees to ask for flexible working.

It shouldn't be that way, but it is. It is changing but not quickly enough.

We do working mums no favour by pretending those barriers aren't there.

Shared parental leave is available now so women have the option of splitting this with their partner rather than taking a full 9 months/12 months maternity leave.

How does this work if your partner earns twice as much as you and losing his salary means you can't pay the mortgage. Is that really someone making an actual choice?

I'm amazed people think women are making the choice to sabotage their career just because they feel like it.

If it is really important you could buy a house that you could manage on less pay,save up to cover the mortgage etc
Can see why people don't want to do that but it all comes down to individual choice
It cost us financially in the early years to have an equal split but worked out financially and more generally long term,and was very very important to me as a matter of principle
My choice