To say I'm half Irish

[Winederlust]

Just wanted to settle a petty argument between DH and I.
I was born in England. As was my mum. My dad also. However both his parents were born in ROI. They moved to the UK as young adults and met, married and settled with a family in England.
I think that, although my dad was born in England, he is full blooded Irish. Which in turn makes me half Irish. My DH reckons I'm quarter at best.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but just interested in the general MN population's thoughts?

MOST did alex.

If you said you agreed, you were at risk of being shot in cold blood.
So, of course people said they pledged allegiance to the Queen.

The NI were more likely to be Unionists as they were planted with British lords.
The Irish (what is now Ireland), certainly did not agree with British invasion.

How would you feel Alex if Germany decided to occupy England and enforce its rules on you and tax you into poverty?
Essentially, you're all accepting it when you vote TORY in your droves.

That's why Connolly agreed to give away the 6 counties as they were effectively British anyway.

According to my DNA test I am 80% Irish. However, my family has been in Australia since the 1850's on both sides. Family is still really into Irish music/culture but my daughter says if I went back to Ireland and claimed to be Irish I would just be laughed at.

Chinchinatii
Sadly James Connolly was dead in 1921 when Ireland was partitioned, having been executed in 1916. It was Michael Collins and Arthur Griffith, sent by DeValera who led the negotiations with the British government.

Yy to the famine being a genocide.

This is an interesting topic. My DH is Irish (born in Dublin) I’m British - DS has a British and an Irish passport. Genetically, he is half Irish? But he has dual citizenship too? So is he ‘half Irish’ ??

In any case, I was him to be as aware of both sides of his heritage as possible which led me to start learning about Anglo-Irish history. When he is older (he is only 2) I would like to learn some gaeilge so we can teach him.

So then I guess it’ll be up to him as to how he identifies.

I agree a lot of the sentiment around English people born to Irish parents (like me) is to do with the history. Maybe also those of us of a certain age who will have been watching the news and seen Gerry Adams voice being dubbed. Conversations were necessarily had in Irish households as to why etc, so we leaned an awful lot from our parents about why it was the way it was and in a way were completely turned off the idea of being English. I believe these days the troubles are taught in history at school (?) but they certainly weren't then, they were still current affairs, and the strength of feeling about it was palpable.

Add to this the second generation culture here where there were droves of Irish pubs all full of people like ourselves, all knowing the words to the country n Irish songs, all terrible at jiving but doing it none the less and all knowing to stand up and face the front when the band finished and played the national anthem. Yet all of us "English". This scene was heaving in London in the 90s and early 2000's and added to a sense of belonging, and i suppose a romantisation of being Irish. So you have all of this inside of you, yet to the outside world you're English.

In those days I would have said i was Irish. I now have dcs of my own and they have none of those cultural references and I don't want to pass on the shame if being English to them. I want them to be proud of where they are from. If anyone ever asked I'd say my family are Irish and leave it at that.

I have the same family background as you but I wouldn’t class myself as half Irish. Irish ancestors but I think if you’re born and raised in a different country in your case England I would say you were English. You could of course get yourself an Irish passport so in theory you are Irish. This is what the Irish would probably refer to as a plastic paddy.

ohmyword20 I think that is spot on. I recognise in myself a - I wouldn't go as far as shame, but certainly an instinctual reluctance that goes very deep - to call myself "English". My DM is Scottish, and of a Scottish nationalist persuasion; DF born in England of Irish family background (and Belfast was always "home" to my granny, who lived with us, even after 30+ years away). I find I have a cultural and emotional barrier to identifying as "English" (though illogically, "British" which is on my passport feels OK). I grew up cheering on Scotland in the rugby.

DH has never understood my allergy to calling myself "English", which from his perspective is just calling a spade a spade when I was born and raised here.
The Brexit debacle has reinvigorated my discomfort.
DS doesn't have any of the second generation cultural reference points and is comfortably "English".

@Chinchinatti - That's why Connolly agreed to give away the 6 counties as they were effectively British anyway.

I assume you mean Collins. The 6 counties weren't British anyway. Only 3 of the 6 counties were majority unionist. The reason the 6 counties were partitioned was to ensure a long term unionist majority whilst maximising the land grab. All of Ulster would have had too high a nationalist population.

@ohmyword20, I agree with @Ceara.

Spot on.

My dad had to wrap all his tools with newspaper, in case he was stopped by police for carrying offensive weapons (saws, screwdrivers etc)

Primary school we were taught nothing about Irish history.

British national anthem, how to speak clearly, HMS Victory, Romans etc

Secondary school, WWI, WWII, Egyptians, Romans, Industrial Revolution and Medieval period.

It is a weird half world.

I found this interview really emotional too. I know Rod is Scottish, but he obviously has an affinity with the Irish.

Rod Stewart is not Scottish. He was born and bred in London. I think his father was Scottish.

If your dad is fully Irish blood then you are half.

You are only half Irish genetically, which is kinda meaningless.
It’s like Madonna claiming to be Italian. She is only half Italian, and only genetically. She wasn’t born and raised in Italy, she doesn’t speak Italian, is not familiar about nuances in Italian culture. You get my drift.

People are confusing ethnicity with nationality.

"To say that Irish and English cultures are similar, you really haven't got a clue. Yes, we both speak English, but that's where the similarities end."

Come on. This sounds like you've never been anywhere else in the world. There are more similarities than that, just as there are more similarities between England and France than there are between England and Japan, more between France and Belgium than between Germany and China. Nearby countries tend to have things in common even if not being exactly the same.

"I often wonder whether Scottish people take offence to being called British or mistaken for being English."

Many Welsh people do take offence at being called English (happens all the time) and it seems Scottish people do as well.

Why would a Scottish person be offended for being called British? English yes - it pisses me off.

As a Scot, I think my passport says British - which is really really strange

Who cares, the important bit is that you're entitled to an Irish EU passport!

DH and his older siblings were all born in the UK, to fully Irish parents, who had emigrated to England as adults. The family went back to live in Ireland when DH was about 5, and DH and siblings have always had Irish passports. So DH is definitely Irish, and our DD is therefore half Irish.

Why would a Scottish person be offended for being called British? English yes - it pisses me off.

A Scottish person is British so yes, it would be a bit odd.

NI citizens are the only ones in the UK who do not have to be British, although the UK government are refusing to legislate for that part of the GFA.

As a Scot, I think my passport says British - which is really really strange

Why is that strange?

Argumentative it's not. It is strange though for someone to think I would get annoyed by people referring to me as British since I am and its what on my passport.

Ah OK, gotcha. Agreed.