To say I'm half Irish

[Winederlust]

Just wanted to settle a petty argument between DH and I.
I was born in England. As was my mum. My dad also. However both his parents were born in ROI. They moved to the UK as young adults and met, married and settled with a family in England.
I think that, although my dad was born in England, he is full blooded Irish. Which in turn makes me half Irish. My DH reckons I'm quarter at best.
Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but just interested in the general MN population's thoughts?

I always wonder about these DNA tests. There’s bound to be a fair amount of inaccuracies (according to whats in records) due to not all fathers being the actual fathers of ancestors.

I think the “elderly” Irish woman was “taking the hand out of you”!

Then why get antsy when you're asked where your heritage is from?
Because of racism, discrimination, othering, being made to feel that they don't belong, etc. I've continously seen non-White friends being asked where they come from, then where they really come from and then a negative comment or the questioner simply walking away. They get this treatment regularly (and this would be lowest, most 'pleasant' level of racism).

They only want to be called British. Weird.
See above

OP I'd say half as your father was Irish born on England's soil but to Irish parent's.
Some of my dad's older siblings were born in England but were never English my grandparents lived there for 3 years for work.

Rethinking it I do think of my English cousins as English. Their mother is Irish their father is English.

Both my parents were Welsh, born in Wales but I was born in England. We’re all British but I feel more Welsh than English. My DSes’ dad is English and my DSes were born in England. They don’t count themselves as at all Welsh.

@ArgumentativeAardvaark both my parents at Irish but I was born in England.

I have found that both English and Irish people have a hard time and argue against me if I said that I was 100% Irish. So I just dodge the question and don’t force it.

I also know a fair few Irish people living in Ireland, who were born in the uk, but to Irish parents. They are embarrassed and hide the fact that they were born in England as I think they worry they are not truly Irish.

It’s odd to me. I think at heart it’s about underlying issues and deep rooted feelings.

I would see someone as being from the country they were born & raised in. I think otherwise people may never feel accepted in the only country they may know.

Neither your genes nor your blood will show your nationality. Nationality is nothing but an artificial construct.

You can claim nationality based on your grandparents if you want. I'd be more inclined to consider you 100% British given your circumstances - but I'd go along with whatever it is you decide your nationality is because as others have said here, it's such an important part of our identity and our social affinity.

Dermot o'Leary. Chris Dignam come to mind as celebrities born in England to Irish parents who are considered 100% Irish.

Exactly the same here, I class myself as British but of Irish decent

You're half Irish!

You are half Irish by ethnicity, obviously. Identity and sitizenship are another matter

So grandparents were irish but mum and dad born in england. You British

You are half Irish.
Your Dad is British but not English.

I think that for me being Irish, I do not want to be known as, or thought of, as anything but Irish. There's a deep national pride which has stemmed from centuries of persecution, war, torture, murder, injustice, cruelty and genocide. I would be ashamed if people thought that I was British, though people like to count me as such in Europe. In the English speaking nations, Irish is a distinct country, but to Europeans, they do not study the history of Ireland's fight for freedom from British rule - and ultimate success.
I simply can't understand, given my own ancestry, why anyone would prefer to be British above where they're from.
You think the Irish didn't receive racism? Hell we did - probably worse than other countries. But we never ever denied our heritage.

I don't know why other nationalities don't have a fierce loyalty to their heritage. Because I sure as hell have.
Being of mixed heritage complicates things for sure.

Culturally, the answer to your question is convoluted and deeply personal.

Legally with regards to nationality, it's clear cut, albeit complicated to explain. And because I used to work in this area and am somewhat rusty at explaining...

Your grandparents were born in Ireland - they are Irish.

Your father was born in the UK to Irish parents. He has dual nationality. If he was born here prior to 01/01/1983, he is British purely because he was born on British soil (jus soli entitlement ended on 01/01/1983 with the British Nationality Act 1981 coming into force).

If he was born after 01/01/1983 he is British because he was born in the UK to settled parents ('settled' being reference to a specific immigration status - indefinite leave to remain - which Irish nationals hold as soon as they move here). Doesn't matter which way around, your father is British.

He is also Irish by descent (again, 'by descent' being a specific immigration term with defined meaning within UK and Irish immigration laws) because he was born outside the island of Ireland, to parents who were born on the island of Ireland.

He doesn't have to do anything to claim his Irish nationality, he was born with it. He can apply directly to the Irish passport service and would be given a passport.

You, are not Irish by nationality. The automatic transition stopped with you because you were born outside the island of Ireland to a parent who was also born outside the island of Ireland.

You can, however, apply to go on Ireland's Register of Foreign Births and from there, apply for Irish citizenship and your Irish passport. The 'Irishness' then stops with you if you have children already. They can't get Irish citizenship through you. If you apply to go on the Register before you have children, they can then apply in turn to go on it and the entitlement to Irish nationality is preserved.

Clear as mud, innit.

By the way, I am exactly the same as you and have an Irish grandparent born in Ireland and an Irish by descent parent born in the UK. I think of myself as British with Irish heritage.

You're definitely not quarter Irish. That means that one grandparent was Irish and the rest English.

Identity is complicated. Depends how your dad saw himself, really.

DH (with two Yorkshire parents) has never lived north of Watford in his life, but would tear to pieces anyone who suggested his son couldn't call himself fully halfway to being a Yorkshireman :-)

I have similar roots to you, OP but my dad has always been "English" (on the "who do you support in an England v Ireland rugby game" test) so I see myself as just British.

My perma-pasty impossible-to-buy-make-up-for skin, on the other hand, identifies as 100% Irish, dammit.

Dermot o'Leary. Chris Dignam come to mind as celebrities born in England to Irish parents who are considered 100% Irish.

I don’t know who Chris Dignam is but I always think of Dermot O’Leary as English because of his accent. I know his name is screamingly, obviously Irish but it wasn’t untiI read an interview with him that I realised how much of his upbringing was culturally Irish. I don’t mean that he doesn’t have the right to say he is Irish, but I really don’t think your average viewer of the X Factor would describe him as “that Irish guy who hosts it”.

I would agree that you are quarter- I consider myself half Irish because both of my parents are Irish and moved to England in their 20s. By your reasoning that makes me full Irish which doesn’t seem right when I was born and raised in England and am culturally very much English.

Hairydogmummy

Both her parents were technically English, so while ethnically she may be half Irish, it dilutes through generations. She's 100% English.

I don't mind people claiming Irish heritage, as I said, quite a few American presidents in recent memory have Irish ancestry - don't know about the rest of them. Mercifully Trump is Scottish haha. We certainly wouldn't want to claim him.

100% British.

When I hear 1/2 Irish, I’d assume you were born to a parent who was raised in Ireland, regardless of what their genetic background was.

Being Irish, or any nationality, is more about culture than where your granny was born.

It’s about knowing what the Angelus is, being forced to read Peig Sayers at school, earning a small fortune at your first communion. Knowing all those tiny bits about the peculiarities of a country and it’s people.

I’m from NI with an Irish passport, and I still don’t feel comfortable calling myself Irish in the same way as DH (Dublin) as our cultural backgrounds are so different.