To think most property owners don’t understand how hard it now is to buy a house

[Boredfromboredshire]

DP and me earn 40k between us and our rent is 1200 a month for a 3 bed house. We don’t have rich relatives, we are in our early 40’s and circumstances (ill health) meant that we didn’t buy a house before. We can’t save a deposit & houses are expensive by us. We have stable jobs & our kids are happy so moving in the current uncertain time’s isn’t an option. Life has happened to us & some of it has been out it control.

Cue well meaning friend (who bought their house for peanuts) asking me why we couldn’t afford a house when we could get a house in a cheaper area for ‘only’ 400k. I’m so fed up of it. We really want a home of our own & we would move but in the current recession, it’s not a good idea to give up a job. And we can’t afford to save. My friend (whose deposit was 12k can’t understand it and looks on pityingly while telling me the house they bought for 120k is now worth 700k.

For many of us, the housing market is closed for ever. I’m so tired of the pity and the complete cluelessness- I quite often feel utter despair about it. It makes me feel such a failure for no real fault of our own. Some people were lucky because they happened to buy at a particular month in time & then some of us couldn’t & it’s over.

I don’t think people who own really understand what it’s like. Low interest rates, cheap mortgages, everything weighted in favour of owners while renters are treated like the Victorian poor.

Aibu to be sick of it. We are a normal family in normal jobs.

Plus, the older you get, the harder it is to get a mortgage.

Chocolatey, just out of interest, roughly what age are you?

And as Vanilla says, have you chosen to work in London and to commute there?

Unless you are a super high earner, you need to live somewhere which allow some of to save your deposit first of all. That means accommodation and commuting costs cannot be too high. People like their own rented flat, but flat sharing, even as a couple, or living at home is what allows people to save the deposit. Is that possible for a few years?

The second thing that is needed is looking to buy where prices, plus any travel cost are affordable. For most this removes London and its commuter land and lots of expensive areas. But lots of the country remains. Is it possible to move elsewhere either now or once the deposit is saved?

Of course, if people won't take choices which allow them to reduce outgoings and save a deposit and/or won't consider living in cheaper areas (which probably means moving work) they will be stuck. But choices are there.....might not seem attractive but are there.

My job doesn’t exist outside of London.

I freelance and have a life shortening medical condition so would never be eligible for a mortgage anyway.

I am lucky enough to own a home bought in 1991 for 78k with a 70k mortgage and joint savings of 8k deposit . My partner and I were earning about 20k each at the time. I am very grateful and wouldn't dream of making such comments to my friends who pay far more to rent than I ever have done in my mortgage. I see myself as very lucky. I have three teenagers who I vant see being on a position to buy a property ever (until o die anyway)

Very sorry to hear about your medical condition.

Perhaps these jobs which can only be done in London, but which don't pay enough to cover buying a house or property and commuting costs are the most awful of all jobs in reality. Is it really a good job if it traps you? Would a lower paid job which can be done in a ranges of place so actually be better for most people.

what i find shocking is that despite the cult around home ownership, the home ownership rate is only 63.4%. I thought I was obsessed which is why i made buying a flat in London my first priority and postponed wedding until i bought it but thats cos i come from a country where the home ownership rate is 91% (and its supposedly the most expensive city in the world!).
And people from my country don't obsess about home ownership the same way.

@Desiringonlychild

Unfortunately one of the main reasons we live in London because of the diversity. I have experienced prejudice outside London as has my husband. This exists everywhere probably but we feel it less in London. Our jobs are transferable countrywide. It is something we aim to reduce impact of for our child. With the money we used to buy our house in zone 4 in London (FTB bought in 2019) we could have bought much nicer in a cheaper area. This is the trade off for our mental health.

@Ireolu Absolutely Yes.

When i say london, i also include places like St Albans, Guildford And Harpenden which have lots of expats living there. but those places are not much cheaper than London and arguably in London, you can do without things like cars which would reduce your cost of living and also reduced costs of commuting. Thats why most people moving out of London are white.

i never really believe in the white privilege argument, but i think this really is. To be white and so free to move anywhere you like in the country without rotten eggs being thrown at your door!

Yes. Yes. Yes.
Your original post in abundance.
The only people we know who have bought houses without help of their parents (50k towards deposit sort of thing)
Are our parents.
My dad no longer has his home but lives with the idea that you can still get a 3bedroom house for 50k and the inlaws think it's just as easy as saving the deposit.
Neither really grasp that the deposit we would need to buy a house is more like £100k.

The area we live in, house prices have shot through the roof. It isnt even a nice area but the house we rent is just under £300k.

No way are we going to be able to scrape that money together. MIL wittles on about how hard they had it, but the fiesta we own for DH to get to work cost more in monthly finance payments than her house ever did.

Its depressing.

The best option would have been if DH wouldve been smarter with money and saved for the 10 years he was at home and working (15 to 25) but here we are.

The only option we have if we are going to get on the property ladder is when we return after Covid19, both of us work day, night and weekend again. Our day rates have been slashed by £50 a day, so that'll be fun too. Were going to put everything we can away, with the plan to look for 2 bed properties or something that needs work doing to it because it's quite scary we wont be able to buy otherwise.

And we earn a decent chunk between us

I think if you are in your 40s you could of (and should of) bought a house at a reasonable price. You had the opportunity and as a previous poster has said you haven't worked your way up the housing ladder - you now want to dive in at the top - that's not feasible. I feel for those in their 20s who never had that opportunity and probably never will. House prices are ridiculous and I hope they come down - yes I will loose lots of equity but it was never really my money in the first place.

Of course rental payments are more than mortgage payments. Otherwise why would landlords invest in property if they weren't making a profit.

I was 24 when I bought my first property. All of my friends were traveling, doing Masters degrees or just partying. I worked 2 or 3 jobs and saved every penny that I could to fund a deposit and pay my mortgage. I also took on a roommate and bought all of my furniture secondhand. It was definitely worth the sacrifice and I plan to sell it when my 3 kids are older to pay for their university and buy a vacation home for my husband and I.

I don’t know anyone who wants to buy a house who hasn’t bought a house . The only people I know renting are those who are young and have children .
Unfortunately ,regardless of how much society has moved on from old fashioned attitudes, the old fashioned attitudeS work .
Study, partner / husband /wife / house , children .
If you don’t follow that order it will be more difficult. Not impossible but more difficult.
In your situation I would either move or accept that I will be renting for the long term .

Young people need to start saving for their futures as soon as they can . Going off and travelling the world or buying expensive cars will have a detrimental effect further down the line if they’re average wage earners .
My youngest is 10 , he says he’s saving for his first house .

Strawberrypancakes

What does being a SAHM have to do with not having your name on the mortgage.

I haven’t had a proper job in years. Nothing that would add to the mortgage but my name is on the deeds and mortgage.

Who told you that you can’t be i the mortgage

I don’t consider myself “trapped” just because I rent. And living in London means I get free travel, which means my commuting cost is zero, and I’d lose that if I moved out of London.

I earn a very good salary. Enough to afford a gorgeous two-bed flat with a balcony overlooking the Thames, walking distance to numerous huge parks and woods, but 2 mins walk from a tube/train station, and have plenty of disposal income left over to travel and eat out and live a really nice life. And I get to do my dream job writing for TV and theatre, which means I very occasionally get to work with my favourite actors and do cool stuff like go to the BAFTAs.

I’m not going to give all that up to go work in Tesco in Macclesfield just to be able to own some shitty house, and it’s unlikely I’d be able to afford to purchase a house anywhere in the UK. So why bother even trying?

I’m also not allowed to drive, which reduces options considerably.

am not familiar with oxford or the costs of commuting from a town to oxford so i had to use my own figures. Given that rail fares are very expensive, it may be unaffordable for OP to commute

Depending where they commute from it could cost £1 per day. Bus season ticket is £365 for a years travel.

I do know the area (lived there many years ago) and we couldn’t afford to buy in Oxford even then.

I wouldn’t have considered High Wycombe as a realistic commuter town to London but I suppose it is. But it is so far out.
I would have looked along the Thameslink line and gone for Radlett, St Albans or Watford that goes into Euston in 22 minutes or Rickmansworth or Amersham (both on tube lines) or out towards Epsom or Croydon etc

Places that are just within or just outside the M25.
High Wycombe sounds an extreme option.

There are plenty of areas nearer to the Finchley Road than High Wycombe.

@Oliversmumsarmy St Albans, Radlett, Ricksmanworth and Amersham are £££, not much cheaper than east finchley. Its cheaper for the big houses, but I don't really need them, more of a luxury than a need. What i wanted was the most cost effective option of a 2 bed flat or house with good schools and easy commuting to the City and St Johns Wood. East Finchley is expensive for the houses, but the prices of the flats are actually average for London. Even in St albans, it costs £300-350K for a 2 bed flat and you have to pay the commuter fares on top of it so it doesn't really work out cheaper.

Watford was an option but I had a personal dislike (a bit irrational i suppose).

a lot of people i know actually commute from beyond wycombe. my boss commutes from haddenham and thame parkway which is 2 stations beyond Wycombe. I think if you work for BNP Paribas in marylebone, it can work well as you have a direct line and perhaps only 1 person is commuting.

@Oliversmumsarmy unfortunately there has been an exodus of londoners to any town within an hour commute of London (not door to door, just from terminal to terminal). So the prices of those towns have increased so much (made worse by the fact that a lot of the people moving to the towns have equity from zone 2 flats). The rail fares have increased above inflation. I have been priced out of a picturesque naice market commuter town in the SE even though I can afford to buy a flat in zone 3 london. It only makes sense to commute if you prioritize/need space cos space is of course much more expensive in London on a square feet basis. But if you are just looking for a roof over your head, a bedroom for yourself, a bedroom for your child, then staying in London is cheaper (thats what i found for myself).

This has also affected prices in oxford cos i actually do know londoners who commute from oxford and they usually have pretty good jobs. This has also impacted OP.

Desiringonlychild as I said I know Oxford and it being too expensive for ftb’s isn’t a new thing. I am talking about mid 80s

Dp worked there for a time and I don’t know anyone who he worked with who lived in Oxford where op wants to live.

Everyone commuted in from the towns and little villages around there.

What op wants hasn’t been possible for many years

If there has been such an exodus from London why aren’t we seeing prices reducing significantly.

What do you mean by commuter towns?

I don’t think the ones I am thinking about have suddenly priced out FTBs as they have always been expensive but you buy what you can afford and manage. Some friends lived in 1 bed places with 2 children. They are both in bigger houses now. We lived in a 2 bed house with Ds and Dd in a tiny box room in bunk bed till they were 14/12 years old. It wasn’t ideal but we managed.
Sticking your nose up in the air and saying you shouldn’t have to put yourself out isn’t going to do you any good unless you have kind rich parents who will give you the world or have just inherited a small fortune off great Aunt Hilda.

Chocolatey, well it’s good that you like renting and don’t feel trapped. I guess I used that phrase as in your initial post you described yourself and friends as all renting with no hope of buying even small flats, never mind family houses.

I appreciate your considerations are different to many and it’s good that renting works for you.

I do think that your description of 2 possibilities - the dream job, which doesn’t pay enough to buy in London or buy and commute in, vs living somewhere you hate and working in a supermarket to buy in that place you hate is rather stark and a bit dramatic. In reality, most people don’t have a dream job that can only be done in 1 place and could take a range of roles and be happy living in several places. People might need to consider moving but it doesn’t have to to misery!

And for lots of people buying brings lots of benefits. Not paying rent in retirement is one which lots of renters do worry about, but long term renters often talk about a lack of security and needing to move on when landlords sell up, or not being able to decorate or really consider it their own or not feeling settled in a community of privately renting. It’s both financial but also emotional too.

It’s hard for young people to look ahead and we don’t know what’s round the corner or what will happen to us or who we will meet. I guess I’d advise my kids to work hard and get well qualified - I might encourage them to aim for things that don’t have to be done in London, for added options - that pay pretty well , but I wouldn’t feel they needed to pay top whack. I’d emphasise the need to save early, so that probably means living at home or in shared accommodation. You don’t know if they will be coupled up or single but I’d recommend not having children alone or before established in career and property. I would recommend looking at rougher areas or doer uppers and expecting to commute in from outside to work. I guess I wouldn’t be telling them to aim for London living, so top whack earnings Won’t be needed. And of course, here’s the thing - if I could help with a deposit I would. I know it makes it unfair and would give them an advantage others wouldn’t have....but I’d actually still expect them to do that other stuff too, if compromising on location or area and being prepared to travel. Perhaps they would be looking at getting a 2 bed instead of a 1 bed because of my help. But I still think my advice could lead to someone with a solid but not spectacularly paid job being able to buy as long as they weren’t too rigid about renting in expensive areas whilst saving or rigid about where they first bought.

If there has been such an exodus from London why aren’t we seeing prices reducing significantly.

A big part of what artificially inflates London’s property market is the significant amount of empty property owned but not occupied as a status symbol by wealthy foreign investors. There are areas of London which used to be vibrant communities, which are now virtual ghost towns because it’s all mega-mansions designed to not be lived in (except maybe by a caretaker) and owned by billionaires in the Middle East. Affordable housing is being torn down; the exodus isn’t leaving loads of nice cheap homes empty, people are leaving because those relatively affordable homes are being taken away.

@chocolatelyasfuck

There are similar problems in Manchester and Liverpool. New build flats are being bought as investments, not even rented out. Mainly investors from China and HK I believe - they want somewhere safe to keep their money. We’re due a recession in the next couple of years, not sure if Covid will bring that forward or not. So not sure new build, leasehold flats are the best place to store money.

I’d emphasise the need to save early, so that probably means living at home or in shared accommodation.

This goes back to the idea of relying on family support, though, which only privileged young people can do.

I moved out at 16. I’ve been paying steep monthly rent - London rent, since I was born and raised here and wasn’t at 16 in a position to drop out of school and relocate - since 16. If you grow up having to make rent every month you’re going to find it a hell of a lot harder to start saving than someone who’s able to live with their parents into they are into their twenties.

By the time I finished university and was able to get my first proper job, I’d already been paying rent for years. It’s much harder to shift from longer renter to homeowner, than to shift from living at home to homeowner.

YANBU I earn £21k and a third of that is insecure income. I have two young children and I am told by friends to 'just buy a house, 'why, we did it without help from my parents'. I am told by friends who have a joint income of £80k+ and are 10+ years younger than me ( I wouldn't be given a 25 year mortgage), "wouldn't our three bed with house with garden within catchment of three excellent primaries and a top performing secondary be good enough for you, that we bought ten years ago?"