To think most property owners don’t understand how hard it now is to buy a house

[Boredfromboredshire]

DP and me earn 40k between us and our rent is 1200 a month for a 3 bed house. We don’t have rich relatives, we are in our early 40’s and circumstances (ill health) meant that we didn’t buy a house before. We can’t save a deposit & houses are expensive by us. We have stable jobs & our kids are happy so moving in the current uncertain time’s isn’t an option. Life has happened to us & some of it has been out it control.

Cue well meaning friend (who bought their house for peanuts) asking me why we couldn’t afford a house when we could get a house in a cheaper area for ‘only’ 400k. I’m so fed up of it. We really want a home of our own & we would move but in the current recession, it’s not a good idea to give up a job. And we can’t afford to save. My friend (whose deposit was 12k can’t understand it and looks on pityingly while telling me the house they bought for 120k is now worth 700k.

For many of us, the housing market is closed for ever. I’m so tired of the pity and the complete cluelessness- I quite often feel utter despair about it. It makes me feel such a failure for no real fault of our own. Some people were lucky because they happened to buy at a particular month in time & then some of us couldn’t & it’s over.

I don’t think people who own really understand what it’s like. Low interest rates, cheap mortgages, everything weighted in favour of owners while renters are treated like the Victorian poor.

Aibu to be sick of it. We are a normal family in normal jobs.

Yes, the virus has hit many people hard trying to get deposits together.

@vanillandhoney

Again if you don't want to move to a "rough" area to get your foot on the ladder that's your choice, but it's not the same as not being able to buy a house at all.

I don’t need to move to Barrow or Blackpool to get a foot on the ladder. Just because I disagree with the structural problems in our housing “market” doesn’t mean that I need to take desperate measures. Why would I, when I can buy a family house in a nice area of Cheshire?

I don’t need to move to Barrow or Blackpool to get a foot on the ladder. Just because I disagree with the structural problems in our housing “market” doesn’t mean that I need to take desperate measures. Why would I, when I can buy a family house in a nice area of Cheshire?

I wasn't referring to you specifically, it was a general you.

@Boredfromboredshire

Agreed, but it started earlier, in the 1990s, with the loosening up of credit regulations (buy to let mortgages, self certification, 105% mortgages) and continued to 2007/8 when we had the bailout and extremely low interest rates. Help to buy is a problem but it’s one problem in a long line of government interference, under both Labour and the Tories.

@Namechangeapril20 it's very easy to see where the house prices would crash most- just look at the numbers claiming uC..London and the SE would actually be less affected because 1 of 2 jobs are wfh jobs. The good thing for OP is Oxford is a university city and there wouldn't be any international students coming so I wish OP the best of luck in getting a little modest home post covid crash.

@TazSyd and it’s what the majority of people on here don’t understand. It’s a massively rigged market

Perhaps you should ask for a map for your birthday?

@TazSyd I'd prefer a globe if you could run to it. 19 March. I'll send you my address.

I know where Barrow and Blackpool are, thanks: both have lower league football clubs, meaning I've visited often.

Perhaps you should piss off back to the Real Housewives of Cheshire?

@Boredfromboredshire

Yes, good point @desiringonlychild. There may be a few landlords selling up in Oxford. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Re Ponzi schemes - agree and the late entrants are always the ones that pay. Fair enough, if someone has bought a house as a home and will stay for 10 years then they should be able to weather any peaks and troughs. Anyone who has bought an investment in the last few years is unlike to see previous years capital gains, in my opinion.

@Boredfromboredshire you are right it's propped up by the government and i say this as an owner of a London flat. I have been amazed by the lengths the government would go to preserve the housing market- help to buy (more like help to sell), 6 month mortgage holidays, opening up estate agents before allowing us to visit our parents.

Its all self interested and so that deluded people can feel rich.. I might own a £400k home but I know that I am not any richer if it becomes £500k or £600k. I am only richer if my income increases or if I own actual assets other than the roof over my head. This 400k flat is my home, I cannot sell it easily without needing to buy another home and hence it is more of a liability than an asset. I only buy cos it's more.stable to own than to rent and to be able to keep costs more predictable. As for upgrading, or doesn't help me if my house increased in value as he 800k house would have increased by just as much.

All in all, the status quo is bad for everyone but some pensioners sitting pretty in their 5 bedroom house (at least until they sell it to pay for care)

The problem is high house prices!
That's part of the problem but to be fair, OP, you have a very particular set of circumstances that put you at a disadvantage regarding what you want:

• Most 40 year olds don't earn significantly less than the average full time wage Most 40 year olds don't need* to live near their family
• Most 40 year olds don't have significant health conditions like your DH that mean (for whatever reason, I'm still not entirely sure from your posts, which obviously you are under no obligation to explain), you can't get better paying jobs or move away from your local area
• Most people don't want to buy in one of the most expensive areas of the country

Added all together, this and high house prices are why you, in your particular circumstances can't afford to buy, but those don't apply to most people!

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

It did sound like you needed a bit of help with your Northern geography, based on your posts. Are you not a local?

OP, could you have saved for a one bed flat if you would have only had one child? Because that was a choice too. Nobody gets on the housing ladder when they decide to, or when they have kids. The process starts years and years before that. Plenty of good advice on here, I hope some people take it seriously and get on the housing ladder themselves.

Kicked out of the house at 18 and worked ever since in a low paid admin job. In the beginning I bought two cheap H&M trousers that I washed by hand every evening and stitched up when they started to fall apart. They lasted a year. I wore one pair of shoes till they had holes in them. I literally soMetimes lived on bread without butter or cheese on it. Olive oil was a luxury. I couldn't have afforded two kids in my 20's and early 30's. I couldn't pay for driving lessons. My winter coat lasted till it fell apart. I had a 105 minute one way commute for 6 years. How dare you call me privileged and lucky for the fact that I basically suffered to be able to buy a flat while other people went out for drinks in the weekend. I doubt you made the sacrifices I did.

@Boredfromboredshire I have long said help to buy and in particular key worker schemes etc are artificially propping up the FTB market rather than letting it fall as salaries stagnated.

I used to live in a grim town in the SE (outside M25 no fast links to London) studio flat £165 when a starting salary for a graduate with experience is £22k... room in a shared house £650 per month. Plenty of NME jobs around.

We moved away to a university town, 2 bed terrace in a decent area just over £100k. At least my DC have the chance of buying here.

@TazSyd are you suggesting Oxford doesn't have a huge drug problem because you would be wrong. It also has swathes of poverty with social issues, rural poverty and massive visible street homelessness.

@walkingchuckydoll

You could still lose your home though. It's happened to previous homeowners I've known.

Desiringonlychild

Is that right? Half of all jobs in London are work from home jobs?

I mean it's right in my house, but where did you get that statistic

I think some people do understand. I was very lucky to buy young (just turned 22)....But...I worked from the age of 15 alongside school every weekend (often 9am - 9/10pm) all the way through uni (working by then 40 hours plus a week) Didn't go out...And if I did (and I'm talking maybe at Christmas!) me and my best friend used to split a pizza..tap water etc. My housemate at uni and I batch cooked food for the month and lived off that (she did the same as me and also worked as much as possible) Was really hard work for 7 years...and then I had saved enough to buy (my husband had no money to contribute so it was all my savings) and bought somewhere 20miles away from our preferred area as we couldn't afford it. We are now on house number 3 and we do feel very lucky. Nothing incredible, little 3 bed (and we have 3 kids) but we love it and it's in the original area we wanted. Would love a 4 bed but that's not going to happen for at least 5 years and we're planning for that. As a family we've been abroad once in 2015 and it wasn't long haul or anything snazzy. My husband and I have been together 16 years and have been away maybe 3 times including our honeymoon in that time.

I suppose my point is I think you'll always get people who don't understand because they gained money in some way. But some of us do know. Could I do it again now with 3 kids? Yes - I managed to support my husband when he didn't work for 3 years doing his nursing degree so lived on a shoestring again during that period on just over half of your salary... But I understand why you wouldn't want to as it has a massive impact on quality of life and you (and the kids) miss out on a LOT for years and years. No Netflix, no driving where you pay for parking, beans on toast, only running one car, heating hardly on, borrowing when you needed something, everything bought from charity shop, one very very old laptop between us, only getting furniture from Freecycle.....and so on.

Good luck OP. If you really want to you could probably do it, but it may not be worth the emotional cost to your family now. It does really suck and I wish it was easier for everyone :)

"Are you saying that people should buy houses in places that they don't want to live in?"

why not? It's exactly what we did, several times in fact. Hundreds of miles from parents, family, friends, to places we didn't know.

If I started a thread saying ‘it’s not fair. I earn £80k and rent in zone 1 London and can’t afford to buy. I’ve been told I should move somewhere more affordable but I can’t because of my DHs health needs and the local support network we have. People just don’t understand how hard it is and the problem is prices are too high’ people would all laugh.

They would laugh because everyone knows London zone 1 is vvv expensive and vvvv few people expect to live there and know £80k won’t be enough.

OP’s situation in Oxford is v similar. It’s expensive and the 2 incomes which total £40k just isn’t enough. She could afford to buy elsewhere but says moving a not possible because of DHs health and seems to think she should be able to afford to buy a family house there.

Most people can’t afford to buy in lots of places. Most people could afford to buy somewhere else. Most people will need to do some saving up ahead of buying anywhere and make sure their outgoings are less than their income for a while to do that. They realise they can increase their income by more work or reduce outgoings by living somewhere cheaper or cutting down on other outgoings. The maths is simple.

Most people can see that if their rent takes all their income and prevents saving and their income isn’t enough for a mortgage, they can’t buy. They can see that they have to change one side of the incomings or outgoings equation or it will never work. Saying it is impossible to make any changes will not lead to house buying. Most people face things which make the adjustments bloody hard and mean they seriously consider if it’s worth it - family ties being the biggest one. Often the obstacles that exist are not insurmountable even if difficult. It’s still possible to see family if they are several hours away. Health conditions can be treated elsewhere too. Other low paid jobs can be gained.

So I say it is very rarely impossible to but a house somewhere when 2 working adults are involved. It might be difficult and involve costly compromises which might initially look impossible, but aren’t impossible. So if you aren’t a homeowner because you weren’t prepared to bear the costs and difficulties if the compromises necessary to make it happen - such as moving away, that’s your choice but it absolutely is a choice, even if not an attaractive one.

Lots of the homeowners on here were handed nothing. They did not buy when prices were cheap and never earned lots. They also had children and family ties and health issues which made moving to a new place terrifying, but they chose to do it and have consequently become owners. So it is possible. They will tell you it’s bloody difficult. No one is saying it’s easy but if you go for easy you just will probably never own.

That's more than my ds2 and partner earn and they've just got their first house at 25.
They went for a small mortgage as obviously never sure hats round the corner.
We live in the NW, but they are excellent at cutting their cloth accordingly.
Ds1 has had his first house with his wife from 25 too.
It's a huge 5 bed house, with lots of land.
Also low earners but bought a shell and prepared to do the work themselves.
It is your lifestyle choices stopping you from affording buying a property.

@Desiringonlychild

so I wish OP the best of luck in getting a little modest home post covid crash.

And in the mean time everything we've worked for over the last 10 years disappears before our eyes. You seem to be under the impression I live in a little modest home. I don't. I live in a dump that we bought for £77,000 with the hope of fixing it up to be worth £100,000 (through making improvements, not house price inflation) to buy a 3 bed semi worth £125,000. That is completely different situation than your house no longer rising from £400k to £600k and you nobly taking the hit... the modest house your hoping the OP can afford is the exact same house we're working towards also, and a housing crash will cost us that!

@Cinderella66

Could you point to where I implied that please?

I know nothing about the Oxford housing market, as I’ve never looked into it. I’m only commenting on areas that I’m familiar with because I’ve lived in them. I’m also commenting on the monetary conditions underpinning the situation - as I have a personal and professional interest in this area. That should be quite clear from my posts.

@You could still lose your home though. It's happened to previous homeowners I've known.

@justamumof1

I've built up enough equity now for it not to be a problem. I also married a high earner at age 38. I'll do fine but I did have a very difficult road to buy my own flat. Having as many kids as I would have liked wasn't a possibility. Or working part time. Or buying more than the absolute basics to survive. I was however very driven to buy my own place because I realised that it was the only way to protect me from future poverty. I was laughed at for my scruffy clothes, once a year haircut and not going out to save money. The laughing stopped when we reached our thirties and the other started whining that they couldn't buy a house while they'd go e to uni, had driving lessons, had new clean clothes and weekends abroad. It's not about avocado's as such. It's the mind set. You need to challenge everything if you want to buy a house. Every last penny.

Well said, @WombatChocolate

Something usually has to give when you buy a house.

Its shear dumb luck i'm afraid and living in a cheap area. I bought my first property at 26 with a 100% mortgage in South Wales. That purchase, ten year later enabled the purchase of a London flat with a small deposit and a husband earning above the average wage. That then translated to a good sized family home in West Wales later with a large deposit. In the South Wales Valleys, ten years ago you could buy a three bed semi for £75k!