To think most property owners don’t understand how hard it now is to buy a house

[Boredfromboredshire]

DP and me earn 40k between us and our rent is 1200 a month for a 3 bed house. We don’t have rich relatives, we are in our early 40’s and circumstances (ill health) meant that we didn’t buy a house before. We can’t save a deposit & houses are expensive by us. We have stable jobs & our kids are happy so moving in the current uncertain time’s isn’t an option. Life has happened to us & some of it has been out it control.

Cue well meaning friend (who bought their house for peanuts) asking me why we couldn’t afford a house when we could get a house in a cheaper area for ‘only’ 400k. I’m so fed up of it. We really want a home of our own & we would move but in the current recession, it’s not a good idea to give up a job. And we can’t afford to save. My friend (whose deposit was 12k can’t understand it and looks on pityingly while telling me the house they bought for 120k is now worth 700k.

For many of us, the housing market is closed for ever. I’m so tired of the pity and the complete cluelessness- I quite often feel utter despair about it. It makes me feel such a failure for no real fault of our own. Some people were lucky because they happened to buy at a particular month in time & then some of us couldn’t & it’s over.

I don’t think people who own really understand what it’s like. Low interest rates, cheap mortgages, everything weighted in favour of owners while renters are treated like the Victorian poor.

Aibu to be sick of it. We are a normal family in normal jobs.

@TazSyd house prices rise that is a natural curve and yes they rise is some areas ridiculously.

My point is that those who think the prices falling will help them, will then struggle elsewhere for eg borrowing enough.

Good luck to all those wanting to own a home 👍

How did you work 300 hours a month as a single parent?

@Boredfromboredshire

Don’t be too hard on yourself. If you haven’t been scared off, come back and read Somenerve’s post from 9:09 this morning.

So if £340k for a 3 bed is too much across 3 counties, you move elsewhere because there are many areas where houses are hugely cheaper than that.

This is the thing.....lots if areas are unaffordable for large groups of people. Thinking your life must be where you grew up or where you started your working life just isn't the helpful way of thinking about it for many people these days - and feeling determined to stay and resentful doesn't actually get a property. For the low paid especially, who really don't have to be located in a particular expensive area in order to get work paying a similar amount, they really do need to consider the much cheaper areas where work might also pay a bit less, but actually not much. 2 adults working in one of the cheapest areas will still be able to earn £40k or not far short of it between them, whisky facing accommodation bills of close to half the current levels.

The anger is about the fact that some people have the luxury of remaining in their expensive areas and buying (often helped by others) whilst the reality for many is that they will need to move a significant distance to be able to buy......and they really don't want to. It doesn't seem fair, but incomes and property and free market economics has never been about equality and fairness and some have a stronger hand than others and all have to do the best with what they have....you can object to that as much as you like, but it doesn't get you on the housing ladder, whereas pragmatic choices which recognise the realities can, even for low earners.

Perhaps we need to bring our kids up to be more flexible...to know that if they want to buy in future, they may well have to be very flexible about area, and to help them move beyond the idea that they will always be where they grew up or where friends and family might currently be. That might be a sad message but a helpful one. But also telling them too about the fact that some early choices really can make big impacts later, is a good message too. Of course people can choose to have kids young, on their own, however they like.....but the idea that all choices regarding this lead to equal chances with property and career later is just foolish and in cloud cuckoo land as an idea. Telling our children these realities is part of their education in my mind because not knowing and finding later you've made choices with consequences you had no idea about, doesn't make it sound like parents really told their children the realities so they could make informed choices.

We are foolish and taking the concepts of free choice too far, to have the idea that all choices in life can be made without any impact or later consequences. Some people have property because of luck and family help and others don't sometimes because of a lack of luck and family help and sometimes because of earlier choices too. Lots of people don't like to acknowledge the role personal choices make...but we should. That doesn't mean most situations can t be changed. Op might to 40s, with kids and fairly low earning jobs and no family financial help, but some careful quite significant changes to life now (moving somewhere much cheaper) could radically alter their future.....if they make that choice.

@SinisterBumFacedCat I can say how I did it (I worked 6 12 hour days a week and bumped my salary up to 26k for a few years) again I was lucky. My DDs real dad is a great father who has always taken up the slack weekends and weekdays after nursery. He had her as often as was needed while I worked. If he’d turned out to be a less interested parent I’d have been screwed financially in other ways.

The young have been screwed when it comes to property.
I'm
Sorry you can't have the opportunities I had and I was a lowly clerk I was not on a huge salary and could afford a mortgage in the 80s and 90s.
My sons are the same as you and it is so unfair. I'm just so sorry 😐
I hope things improve for you in time.
Take care

For those who are saying that people can move to other areas, live in tiny properties Whilst saving etc are missing the point...Which is that the housing market is vastly over inflated. We shouldn't all have to undertake crazy life acrobatics just to get on the ladder. House ownership should be accessible to all...instead it has become Another market commodity. My landlord owns over 50 properties,..none of which has a mortgage. He inherited them. It’s just wrong.

But again it's all about choices. Choosing a career that's tied to a big city like London, choosing to remain close to your family etc etc.

I have caring responsibilities, I can't live elsewhere.

DH picked his career at 17 when choosing a degree. It's pretty sad world to limit a young person's career choices for a theoretical family in 15 years time.

The housing ladder for a family with two full time workers shouldn't be so hard to get onto that people would consider moving 400 miles away from their roots and support. I respect and understand your choice but I don't think it should be this way.

So OP, do you feel vindicated by the responses on this thread - that the situation is crap and people have no understanding of what it's like for those in your position? Perhaps yes.....but perhaps also a sense that there might be some options which could change things. Can you be both vindicated in your thinking, but also have your eyes opened to possibilities that if taken, could have your family in your own accommodation in less than 5 years....or is that kind of thinking rather too lomg term for you? I know lots of people struggle with plans which require hard choices for an extended period, with the reward only coming at the end.

I must admit we moved out to a cheaper area to buy a place in the 80s but not everyone can do this. (Plus that cheaper area isn't as cheap nowadays either)
It's a horrible situation for the young people.
I have every sympathy for them.
Not buying a coffee take out doesn't equate to buying a home , not these days.

@wombatchocolate

That’s unnecessarily rude and patronising. I’m not surprised the OP hasn’t been back for a while.

It would be better if all those bleating about “choices” recognised that not all of us have the same choices in life. That many of us were handed a deck loaded against us. If those of the older generation bleating about choices acknowledged plainly and honestly that it is their precious “choices” that have caused those starting decks to be loaded against us; that as a generation, as the whole, they took the opportunities given to them and made choices which systematically abolished them for all who come after. That they deliberately pulled up the ladders they used, and now not everyone, however wise their “choices” will ever get the chances their work deserves.

Start from that position: and we might just be in a better mood to hear your wonderful and learned advice and nod along politely to it however irrelevant it is to our situations. Otherwise don’t be surprised by the growing anger and resentment.

It is mainly Boomers who drone on about "iphones, starbucks and avocados". My MIL is a classic case - SAHM all her life, husband was a college lecturer and they bought a 3 bedroom in Lytham in their early 20s on his income and then moved up the ladder. Which would of course be impossible now.

The housing ladder for a family with two full time workers shouldn't be so hard to get onto that people would consider moving 400 miles away from their roots and support. I respect and understand your choice but I don't think it should be this way.

I totally agree, but we can't live our lives wishing things were different - we have to make the most of the world we find ourselves in. Wishing the housing market was different won't change the here and now. Most people on 40k are not going to be able to buy a house in the middle of London or Oxford. You either come to terms with that and accept that you'll be renting, or make different choices and move. Neither choice is more valid than the other, you just do what makes sense to your circumstances.

I knew if I wanted to buy a house I would have to make sacrifices. I chose to live apart from my support for a few years while I saved and got myself on the property ladder - because there was no other way of doing things. If I'd stayed closer to home I couldn't afford to even rent a 1-bed flat, let alone buy a house!

'IT shouldn't be this way' - well you may well be right about this, but it IS this way. So given this is the reality, we can either keep saying it shouldn't be this way and remain in rented close to family and friends, or we can accept the disappointing reality and move away to where we can afford to buy.

Which of the 2 would you advise your 20s children to do and which might put them inna stronger position 10 years down the line? People have always had to move and make big family-based sacrifices for financial security. Think of men who left their family in parts of the commonwealth and moved to the UK so they could work and send money home and hope to bring their families here in 10 years, or the Eastern Europeans who did the same, or the people who go abroad to work for 2 or 3 years so they can save up.......often very hard choices with significant personal cost and sacrifice. I think that because perhaps 1 or 2 generations have seen significant growth in wealth through property price increases, we think it has mostly been easy for people. Mostly it hasn't - until 100 years ago, the vast majority always rented and faced an old age of hardship still paying rent. Lots of people still make big sacrifices to get on the housing ladder, even if some have it easier through gifts. But what do comparisons achieve apart from bitterness really - isn't it better to focus your energy on making a plan for progress for your family, even if it will be a hard road ahead, or are we now rather too soft to make the hard choices and so prefer to remain in the tricky position knowing it won't improve?

@WombatChocolate How rude and patronising. Let's hope you never have financial uncertainty or frustration.

I'm not a boomer as such ( born mid 60s) but I'm not selfish or look down on people!
I feel sorry for the youngsters. It's so bloody hard for them.
I wish I could say something positive but nothing is at the moment especially now with the virus doing the rounds too.
Maybe prices will drop though? I've no idea but something good may come out of this.

The problem is that the average house price to average wage has widened steadily. The cost is not based in material nor labour cost but "market value". This has been engineered, concepts like shared ownership, right to buy and the "housing ladder" where the mechanisms used to achieve this. It suited governments as it allowed them to bolster the GDP figures with this inherent rise in property value when in fact property only circulates money it doesnt add to an economy. Hey presto housing g became a commodity instead of a need. We own a house so I really don't want to see a large fall but I do want to see change. What we should seek to do is to prevent house prices rising by more than 0.75 of the rate of inflation. This would refocus attitudes to housing away from investment. How? Well firstly fully racing all incomes from second or multiple homes as income- introduced gradually, secondly if a house sells at a price above the .75 of the accumulated inflation across the period of ownership of say the last 10 years then all of that extra value goes to the treasury - (so you can see long term inflation but no short term "flipping"). Thirdly government build housing for rent and sale in preference to private development - regularly employed construction jobs instead of scratching contract to contract. Sounds hard and I'm sure it is bit if we can survive Brexit, Trump, Boris and Corona (all of which I'd rather not have!) maybe we can spend a little on a better society.

My landlord owns over 50 properties,..none of which has a mortgage. He inherited them. It’s just wrong

Why is that wrong?? If you had a property wouldn't you want to pass it on to you dc?? So it's the same with 50 properties!!SOMEONE worked hard to buy them, paid tax, paid CGT, maintenance etc etc. Ok your landlord didn't as he "just" inherited but that's not his fault surely??? And he will have paid inheritance tax. I hate this judgement on ppl, just because they have gained something in easier ways than others doesn't mean their whole life is easier and that they have no idea how the world works!

We bought our first house through a Help to Buy scheme that was available everywhere in the UK so unless you live abroad, you haven't looked very hard into Help to Buy options. Unfortunately, Help to Buy schemes don't actually help anyone - there was a study a couple of years ago that found that not one person has been able to buy because of Help to Buy, just that the people who went through the schemes saved money.
If you and your partner having the income of two people working full time on just above minimum wage then of course you can't afford to buy a house. Houses are most expensive thing most people ever purchase so how could you afford one on a low income. For us, it wasn't about the deposit, it was about our income being included. Even if you saved £40000 then there's absolutely no way any lender would give you a mortgage of £360000 on an annual income of £40000. Usually banks times your annual income by 4.5 so, with a £40000 income, you could only get a £180000 mortgage.
Having said that, if you're paying £1200 in rent on a £400000 property then you're getting a really bloody good deal there.
Just ignore the morons who think buying a house is easy or that everyone can do it - they're wrong. It's 99% luck if you're low income.

'Not all of us have had the same choices in life' - yes, that has always been true. There are always those who begin with more and for whom it is not a level playing field. I think this is true in every generation. The question then comes about what you do with that reality. You can be worn down by it and bitter or you can look for solutions.

In every generation, people who didn't have a good start find a way to make things work. Sometimes they have great luck or great ability which helps them. But in housing, you don't need either of those to become a home owner, if that's what matters to you. Normal people with normal incomes and who have made normal choices earlier in life which perhaps didn't aid their journey towards ownership, can still become owners and get a mortgage by making simple choices about where they live. There are lots on this thread who were in exactly OP's position two or three years ago....and now aren't because they moved. They made difficult choices which in some ways probably still hurt today - being away from family and friends. They weighed it all up and decided innthenlomg term, it was for the best.

OP, if you and your husband are working at either uni for sub 20k each you must be doing a very low paid job or severely under paid. I too work in a uni, albeit in London, and am on more than your joint income in a relatively "junior" professional role. I've looked at the HE job market in Oxford as at one point we were considering moving towards Reading and I'd start on mid to low 30s for a similar role. The lowest paid at my uni are on around 30k a year for FT hours (cleaners, catering staff etc) and we obviously get the incremental rise each year which is about a grand, so I genuinely don't understand how you can be on a full time salary in the high teens for years and years at a uni unless there's something that you've missed out. Surely your union has something to say about staff being paid next to minimum wage? If you genuinely are on that then I'd be looking for a new higher paid job at somewhere like a supermarket.

I believe that for many (of course not all) these choices matter and make a difference.

I'm not a boomer. Born in the mid 80s, grew up in Eastern Europe in a horrible recession during my formative years and graduated in 2010 to the post-crash world. Bought first property in 2012 while still a post-grad student. Like I said in my earlier post, this was a tiny cheap studio flat in a cheap area of the country (still a university city though), it also needed lots of work done.

@WombatChocolate The “practical” options you extol perpetuate the problem.

@TheWindowDonkey “life acrobatics” - wonderful phrase.

@DarkendTimes "...Start from that position: and we might just be in a better mood to hear your wonderful and learned advice and nod along politely to it however irrelevant it is to our situations. Otherwise don’t be surprised by the growing anger and resentment." Nothing to add, just repeating it. There are going to be a lot more enlightening threads like this in times to come.

My landlord owns over 50 properties,..none of which has a mortgage. He inherited them. It’s just wrong

LOL so you'd be handing them over to strangers for free then I presume?
Seeing as its so "wrong". By that rationale, i presume you wont be passing on anything to your kids but will be leaving your inheritance to the state or leaving it to strangers then? After all, if inheritance is wrong then you shouldn't do it either.

Sorry but what a load of hypocritical BS. I dont believe for a second anyone would just hand over their inheritance to strangers if it was them receiving it.