To think most property owners don’t understand how hard it now is to buy a house

[Boredfromboredshire]

DP and me earn 40k between us and our rent is 1200 a month for a 3 bed house. We don’t have rich relatives, we are in our early 40’s and circumstances (ill health) meant that we didn’t buy a house before. We can’t save a deposit & houses are expensive by us. We have stable jobs & our kids are happy so moving in the current uncertain time’s isn’t an option. Life has happened to us & some of it has been out it control.

Cue well meaning friend (who bought their house for peanuts) asking me why we couldn’t afford a house when we could get a house in a cheaper area for ‘only’ 400k. I’m so fed up of it. We really want a home of our own & we would move but in the current recession, it’s not a good idea to give up a job. And we can’t afford to save. My friend (whose deposit was 12k can’t understand it and looks on pityingly while telling me the house they bought for 120k is now worth 700k.

For many of us, the housing market is closed for ever. I’m so tired of the pity and the complete cluelessness- I quite often feel utter despair about it. It makes me feel such a failure for no real fault of our own. Some people were lucky because they happened to buy at a particular month in time & then some of us couldn’t & it’s over.

I don’t think people who own really understand what it’s like. Low interest rates, cheap mortgages, everything weighted in favour of owners while renters are treated like the Victorian poor.

Aibu to be sick of it. We are a normal family in normal jobs.

I do understand as I have 5 children - one bought this year and anotherother bought at end of last year - in both cases it was their second property - they are both in their 30s.

What they, I and my parents did was we bought before we bred. My parents were married for 10 years without children in the 1950s both working full time in professional jobs before they could afford to buy (doctor (consultant) and teacher). Same for us - no babies until we bought ( head of dept teacher and London lawyer). Same for my daughter (London lawyer) and her husband - all bought before we bred and in both case two full time and professional careers.

It was only when this family moved into getting further education and taking jobs in professions that buying property really became a possibility.

However the "friend" saying it is easy to buy where the poster is now is not being kind at all. mind you loads of people are more than happy renting. Plenty would never dream of living right out where I do in outer london as it is not "posh" enough and lots make active choices to rent somewhere nice rather than buy somewhere not so nice. Even in the 1980s we could not afford to buy in Ealing (I worked in central London) so had to buy further out.

Completely agree with you @YappityYapYap . For some people the glass is always empty as it is easier to feel sorry for oneself instead of find a different solution.

@walkingchuckydoll

This. Exactly. Well said. My first house was 6 X my income and a complete dump in a place that I had my car broken into on a monthly basis, and I had £50 left after bills every month whilst my peers were out partying every weekend

Those same peers now complaining they'll never be able to afford because of X and Y ignoring the real reason is that they've been finding 'reasons' for the last 20 years and now it is probably too late.

But if you buy in a cheap area you don't need to scrimp and save for twenty years

I live in probably the cheapest area across 3 counties, and my modest 3 bed is worth about 340k. Raising a 34k deposit on a 40k income would be about £600 a month for 5 years, in which time prices (may) have jumped up.

Or you could buy a studio/1 bed flat and delay having kids, wasting ££££ when you do move.

My PIL's 4 bed home cost 36k in the 80s, it's probably worth 700k now.

Somenerve, well yes I would look to suggest solutions within our screwed up situation rather than simply talking about how the system is wrong. This is because I think the Op would actually like a house and be better served in a real world practical way, than by theories and idealism which might well mean they are still in rented at 65.

This is the thing on this thread - a divide between those who see the situation and say it’s wrong and keep saying it for themselves or others ....and who are probably right, but whose words won’t mean they are in their own home 5 years from now and those who talk about personal actions which can and do make a difference - not to the system, but for those families like Ops.

It is very hard at 40 to uproot a family to a new area where you know no-one. It is hard to get new jobs, for kids to start new schools and to begin again, probably still in rental for a time before buying. No one said it was easy, but more people need to consider seriously looking into it, because it can be a solution when there aren’t many for low earners. I think op would like a solution ...or perhaps not....perhaps it just is a bid for pity for her situation and her perceived attitude of others and she just wants to stay where she is, even knowing that means she can’t buy. I don’t know - but there are options, there really are. They might be hard but anyone who has the idea that life was smooth or we should all have an easy ride to the comfort of our choice, missed a large chunk of reality that has always been the case. Become someone who finds the few options that can work and lead to change, or accept the reality - choice is there.

Agree with pp that it has always been thus. The difference seems to be that priorities have changed

The facts tell us that’s just not true. Clearly you’ve never read an economic research paper on the subject, which I realise may not be the most appealing, but you stay deluded if it’s easier.

Oh and the old favourite “it’s so easy, go and stay with parents for a few years”. Of course everyone has parents with houses that they can just park themselves on for a few years. In a very narrow privileged world that not all of us were ever part of.

finding

It real boils my piss for others to wish for something to happen that may break someone else and this goes for anything! It's selfish and cruel

Do people who wish for continually increasing house prices, so that their equity goes up and they can move up the ladder also boil your piss? As if those wishes come true, as they have for the past 7 or so years, it locks other people out of home ownership.

It’s a good job that wishes don’t determine the house price cycle.

I don't know OP. I live very close to you, in a decent area but not quite as expensive as the city. I'm mid thirties and my group of friends are all the same age. There are four of us, with partners/husbands.

Couple one: Own 4 bed house. One high-ish earner (higher rate taxpayer), one stay at home parent with two children

Couple two: Own 3 bed house. One social worker one self employed person with three children

Couple three: Own 3 bed house. One Teacher and another high-ish earner with two children

Couple Four: Rent 3 bed house. One stay at home parent and one high-ish earner with four children

The difference between the first three couples and the last is the first three saved hard (no deposits were gifted) and didn't spend their twenties in debt which was spent on clothes, holidays etc. They also had children later, after they'd bought the houses and had less of them.

It isn't easy, it's probably harder than it ever had been. But don't assume all home owners just got given what they've got.
Most didn't! The reality for us, in our group, is that we made different choices. it annoys me when people say we're lucky. We're not lucky, we worked really bloody hard for what we've got.

I live in probably the cheapest area across 3 counties, and my modest 3 bed is worth about 340k. Raising a 34k deposit on a 40k income would be about £600 a month for 5 years, in which time prices (may) have jumped up.

Around here a 3 bed with a garden is about 120k, if that. So while you might live in a cheap area for where you are, it's not cheap if you compare it to other places across the UK.

There's a big difference between a 12k deposit and a 34k deposit. When we bought, we couldn't even afford the 12k deposit so we bought the 60k 2-bed with a 6k deposit and are doing it up ourselves.

I wouldn't expect anyone on a 30k income to be buying a property worth 340k. You have to live and buy within your means. If that means you have to move somewhere cheaper, then so be it. Lots of people just don't want to do that. And like I said, that's their choice, but it doesn't mean that they can't buy.

I’ve also noticed that people who like to go on about “choices” are usually keen to try to fit the populace into a screwed up housing situation, rather than tailor housing to facilitate greater life choices.

Is possible to think the situation needs to change and still object to being considered lucky or privileged. And to point out the choices, even if not ideal.
Especially when comparisons are with similar age, similar income.

Well done somenerve, a great post. The finacialisation of housing is destroying the UK and needs to end. Its a fiscal drag on the productivity of the whole economy and only benefits a very, very small number of people. A correction or a crash, it really doesn't matter what you call it, is long overdue. The main thing is that the sooner house prices fall, the better.

The OP's dilema shows how broken the UK has become.

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-86082173.html

What about this one? It doesn't look like shared ownership!

It's impossible in the South without very well paid jobs

We bought in the north last year, 2 bed house for 90k. 5% deposit, both earning about 17/18k each. We could live on just one wage. But we don't have kids and don't have a car either. Those are our choices I don't particularly consider us lucky for it

I would like to say that being a house owner (or mortgage payer) isn't fantastically better than what you describe op. Our house is modest and after living in it for 12 years needs work that we can't afford to do. If we chose to rent instead then for the same amount that we pay for the mortgage around here we'd get a much better house. Like way better no comparison.
Could you move to a cheaper part of the country?

Choices definitely come into it. We helped our children with their first house but we didn’t hand them a deposit on a plate.

They haven’t had children because they wanted a career that supported a comfortable lifestyle, savings, an established and committed relationship and somewhere to live before babies.
We had to do the same.
They bought where they could and what they could afford to get on the ladder.
They’ve done extra work to boost income, just as we did. The GP daughter does locum shifts at weekends, as does her fiancé. Our son instructs at a sailing centre when he’s home.
My husband had three professional jobs when we first bought. He was working very long hours when the children were tiny.

The choices start young with an eye to the future. Work hard, get a good degree, be prepared to study further, move around for the best opportunities, don’t have children until you’re on a decent salary preferably within a committed partnership or marriage.

Doesn’t help if you’re forty and already have children but you can still improve your opportunities if you are willing.
You can move to a better paid job (although Coronavirus has made that difficult in the immediacy).
You can move children without huge detriment, even if they are happy.
You can do additional jobs if there are two of you.
You can study alongside your children and improve your prospects.
You can forego luxuries like holidays and two cars. It does help.

There aren’t rights and wrongs but there are choices to be made, depending on what you want from life. Not everyone can be on £200k in their 20s, but neither does complaining about it being unfair and making excuses change anything.

Around here a 3 bed with a garden is about 120k, if that. So while you might live in a cheap area for where you are, it's not cheap if you compare it to other places across the UK.*

Oh, absolutely. But DH's industry is tied to London, and our families (and caring responsibilities) are here. We could live in a palace if we were free to live and work anywhere, but we aren't, and I'd guess that it's rare to be this free to roam.

We need more social housing for crying out loud

Absolutely this.

For people who can't get social housing, buying is the only way they can get a home that is relatively secure. The only way they can be made to move is if they don't keep up the payments.

People who rent privately can find that their landlord wants to sell, or to have a member of their own family move in, or have just taken against them for some reason (DP's old landlord refused to renew tenancies for 3 tenants in as many years, one because she had a black boyfriend, one because he'd become ill and had to go on benefits and a 3rd because she kept asking for things to be fixed).

This increases the demand for homes to buy. No-one wants the insecurity of private renting if they can avoid it.

You can buy a house but the things you have to do are very hard. If you’re credits good, you could consider some of these things. Some (nearly all) of which I had to do.

set a 2/3/5 year plan

move to the cheapest rented place you can find. (I did a tiny bed sit for me and a child for 2 years) it was very hard but worth it.

work, work, work, work, work. I was working 300 hours a month during most of this time. Night shifts, weekends etc.

make your first purchase the first thing you can afford to buy as inflation was going faster than I could save. I would have liked a two bed house but I brought a one bed flat (we shared a bedroom again)

buy a house that needs a lot of work. Absolute drain on your wages but you get there eventually.

trade up when you can.

I did all of this within the last 6 years. I’m a single Mum that lives in the South East.
I live in a two bed house now and it has pretty decent equity in it too.
I’m sorry but if there are two of you, you absolutely can get on the property market. You’re just not willing to make the monumental sacrifices it takes.
Whether it should be that hard is another story. Whether other generations had it easier or harder is also irrelevant to you buying now.
Make a plan and implement it. Otherwise, keep paying someone else’s mortgage.

Oh and just to add. I earn pretty shit hourly rate so i had to save an even bigger deposit than most ftb’s as I couldn’t reach the wage multiples required by the banks.

Oh, absolutely. But DH's industry is tied to London, and our families (and caring responsibilities) are here. We could live in a palace if we were free to live and work anywhere, but we aren't, and I'd guess that it's rare to be this free to roam.

But again it's all about choices. Choosing a career that's tied to a big city like London, choosing to remain close to your family etc etc. Not that those choices are wrong by any means but lots of people have made different choices in order for them to be able to buy.

I lived 400 miles from my parents for several years because I couldn't afford to live anywhere else. Now we're 40 minutes drive away and we still couldn't afford to live anywhere closer.

I used to work with a lot of people who used to complain about the fact that they were stuck renting in their 30's/40's while I had a mortgage in my twenties, and in the same breath said to me "well, I'd never dream of living where you do" - ignoring the fact that the only reason I have a mortgage is because I chose to live in a less desirable location!

I was lucky with timing. I bought on the outskirts of Glasgow during the crash, and bought a repossessed house. I only needed a mortgage of 39k to do it on my wage of 23k this was doable (I had 7.5k deposit sitting in the bank) and then the area boomed. It was sheer luck nothing special I did. I then met DH through work (I only have one child too and again was lucky to have no accidental pregnancy) and it turned out he’s from a wealthy family. I found this out quite far into the relationship. My mortgage is paid off and we bought a second home in Orkney to rent out and retire to. Again absolutely NOTHING I’ve done put me in this position. It’s been luck and timing and family wealth. The housing situation in this country is batshit crazy that sheer luck or pouncing at the right time is what it takes to have a home, or huge gifts of money or a massive salary. I won’t judge anyone not on the ladder as I wouldn’t be on it without the global crash or DH losing his wonderful mother. It’s at the point it’s a game of chance.

Btw OP when you are talking about houses, are you talking about property in general or houses with gardens.most people living in expensive areas can't afford to buy houses, esp not as a FTB and many people (including me) can't afford to upgrade. In many other countries, people also buy flats and only the rich buy houses.

I haven't read the whole thread, but i agree op. There us enough wealth in this country that every family should only need one persons wage to secure their own home. This was the case in our parents day. Having both parents working was a choice not a necessity. If wages were fair or big business actually paid any taxes this could happen. Instead many people work long hours for unfair pay, are forced to put their kids in wrap around childcare, are suffering poor mental health due to financial stress and STILL can only afford to rent. We live in a seriously screwed up world.