To think if you want to be “like Denmark”...

[SachaStark]

... then you have to be prepared to vote and pay taxes like the Danish?

I keep reading these comparisons on here, particularly regarding the re-opening of Danish schools, and seeing posters cry out for, “being like Denmark.”

But ultimately, things like this are easier (though not easy) for countries like Denmark which benefit hugely from high taxation. Hence why their schools can be better prepared, and they have a greater number of well-maintained public spaces to utilise for COVID-related reasons.

AIBU to think that if you want to be more like Denmark, then you should be realigning your thinking to agree with, for example, income tax rates of 45%, in order to create a country with excellent public services, like Denmark?

I also live in a european country with a higher income tax rate and I agree with the OP. So many posts on here that the NHS needs more money, the schools need more money, very royal maternity leave is seen as too little, furloughed need more money. If you feel that the country needs more money then why not vote for a party that feels the same and makes you pay more income tax? There must be one.

Just for comparison: we pay 52% income tax and 21% VAT. Income tax is lower for people with low wages though.

I also live in Denmark. Taxes are pretty reasonable if you are on a low salary and if you pay a lot of tax then you are earning loads anyway so it doesn’t matter.

The quality of life is great in the places I have lived. The poorest people here are not as poor as the poorest people in the U.K.. Likewise for the richest.

The only thing that is punishingly expensive, at least in Copenhagen, is rent/property prices. There are ways and means to pay less and low income people can get help from the government but the rent is too damn high!

I was also going to recommend the two books Barbara mentioned above. They are entertaining and informative (and also show that not everything is perfect in Denmark, but it's not far off in many respects).

I think the right wing Tories would froth about some of the policies - mind you, I wonder what is being said behind closed doors about things like the furlough scheme - they must be so mad about it.

Living costs are high in Scandinavia food is expensive, going for a coffee is expensive, alcohol is very expensive (though cheaper in Denmark thann Sweden!)- it means the shop and cafe staff are better paid though. The gap between high and low pay- eg dr and nurse, teacher and t.a is smaller in Scandinavia than in the UK. But mainly, a smaller population means it is easier to meet the needs of the majority, and there is more space for housing. People moan less about paying high taxes. Unions are very strong, and buy to let doesn't really exist.

The problem here is that everyone thinks that "other people" should pay more tax, not themselves.

Similarly, there will be suggestions of "Why don't we tax Amazon"? because people don't realise that one of the drawbacks of belonging to a trading group with hugely differing economy sizes means that devious companies are able to avoid big tax bills for the bigger economies by paying much smaller amounts to the tiny economies, hence Amazon is based in Luxembourg, Google ireland etc.

I love Denmark, have Danish family, and agree with everything that people are saying about quality of life, public services, equality etc. but otoh they are (sorry Copenhagenmummy!) a teeny, tiny little bit smug about it. It is an excellent country, in most respects (think the nydansker / new danes thing is a bit weird though, since as far as I can see you never get to actually stop being one, no matter how many generations down, if not white) - but my gosh, don't they just know it.

Do you have the equivalent of National Insurance in Denmark or are the tax rates mentioned the total amount?

In the UK we have the 20% income tax that most people pay - high earners pay more and very low earners don't pay income tax, but people often forget about the NI which means that most people pay 32% tax + NI on a large portion of their income and graduates pay another 9% effective graduate tax to repay their student loan, so someone on an average salary of around £30k with a student loan pays a marginal rate of 41% tax, and if they earn above £50k this goes up to 49% but then the NI payment tails off and I'm not sure how it works exactly.

If the 37% Danish income tax is the total amount with no extra NI or student loan repayments, it doesn't look quite so bad.

Re coffee shop wages - I suppose Denmark is an illustration of the effect of paying lower earners more - basic goods and services become more expensive, although I do agree with the idea of a more equal society with a smaller difference between low and high earners.

Agree with @caperberries - in that the British mentality is too far gone. Prejudices have reared their ugly head again like a chronic case of herpes in our history since feudal times - the idea of Empire and a misplaced superiority is still a normal and accepted way of thinking towards other, infact more advanced countries. To function like these countries one must have a society built on certain values...with a common sense and openness about ones own very existence and responsibility, and also be free of the sort of corruption we have embedded in our politics from the ruling classes. The information is there but people would rather read the papers published by these very people, which guess what, conveniently leaves out the truth. We simply do not have that decency the Nordic countries think and behave with. In other words, both the British mentality and ways of taxation are inherently immoral.

Totally agree! I would be happy to pay higher taxes for a better lifestyle for everyone. I was going to recommend the Year Living Danishly book, it's very interesting. In particular the work life balance and attitude that if you work very long hours you must not be doing your job properly or you would be able to do it inside normal working hours. Total opposite attitude to here!

er we have income tax of 45%!

I certainly wouldn't mind paying more taxes (and have voted this way in the past). From colleagues and friends (and au pairs) who are from the Nordics, there is so much we could learn about fairer society...but the dark side of that is the "Law of Jante" mentality (kind of a crabs in a bucket, tall poppy syndrome concept) which I'm not keen on.

Ime they are much more progressive & value childcare, education, etc.

I'm not against paying more tax but it has to be across the board & the money actually invested in the services.

We would also need a non-Tory government and for the mega rich to pay their fair share of tax.

I think a big issue we have is the mega rich are untouchable.

then you have to be prepared to vote and pay taxes like the Danish?

Absolutely. It's what I always think when I read about the schools opening in Denmark.

Also - their total population is about a tenth of that of the UK. Much easier to do things like schools etc when you're dealing with 20% of 6 million, rather than 20% of 60 million.

I have consistently posted here and Facebook, ill happily pay more tax proportionally. id rather that than clap for the NHS. I can't understand this obsession with low taxes and yet the love of the NHS - the two don't go together, we have nurses in real terms on £5000 pay cuts in the last 5 years. They can't afford to rent as estate agents will not rent to them as solo person due to low wages (my area) though property rental prices are sliding atm which will make life easier

The only thing that is punishingly expensive, at least in Copenhagen, is rent/property prices.

Cheap compared to London though. Danish property in general is much cheaper than the UK if you look at price per sqm.

Surprised you don't think tax on cars is punishingly expensive? Although it's come down a bit lately hasn't it?

Yep take me to Denmark now. Never mind the taxes I want to live in a country that calls its immigrants "New Danes".

If you feel that the country needs more money then why not vote for a party that feels the same and makes you pay more income tax? There must be one. - yes there is, I voted for it, as did many other people, but not enough to make it happen. Mainly due to voters who have other names for immigrants.

Anyway, first bus out of here for Denmark ....

er we have income tax of 45%

If you're talking about the UK, that only applies to the tiny percentage of very high earners.

Most people pay basic rate tax. According to this in England, there are 22 million basic rate taxpayers, 3.3 million higher rate (40%) tax payers and 0.4 million additional rate tax payers so about 2% of the population who pay 45% tax, most of whom will be Mumsnetters or DHs of Mumsnetters, it sometimes feels like.

The link splits up England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and I CBA looking through the whole list, but assume that the figures or similar or possibly lower as there are probably proportionally fewer additional rate tax payers in Wales for example.

I recognise that paying more tax is a good thing but then on an individual level i'm a little bitter about it.
I'm 31 & pay a lot in rent. I'm in the public sector & lots of my colleagues are older than me & have houses that would be very expensive to buy now, 2nd homes & excellent pensions (I'm on a newer scheme). I'm just on the cusp of higher rate tax payer & I really don't have a lot of disposable income left after rent, student loan, pension & saving for a home.
Plus I have little faith that benefits like the state pension, a free at point of service NHS or even the freedom pass will exist for me when Im older.

Oooh, lovely fluffy Denmark:

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/26/danish-parliament-approves-plan-to-seize-assets-from-refugees

The new govt was thinking about scrapping this, but it's a disgrace it was ever passed in parliament.

The hero-worshipping of some countries on here is so tedious.

If only we had the same attitude towards cycling in the UK as they do in Denmark too .

er we have income tax of 45%

I think you can't just look at PAYE when looking at who earns the most.