Barely surviving and I hate myself for it

[majesticallyawkward]

I hate myself for feeling like this, but I'm out of everything. Every reserve has been drained.

I'll start by saying I adore my children, I really do.

Today has been fucking awful, most days are bad but today I've been pushed to the edge.

My 5yo is just horrible. It doesn't matter what I do she is constantly screaming, shouting, hitting, punching, scratching, spitting and generally being just awful. No punishment works, no positive reinforcement works, I don't know what I've done to make her like this.

She won't do any school work, won't play or do crafts or anything alone or with me/dh. Today I asked her to do one small piece of school work and she screamed and attacked me for 2 solid hours. Took her out into the garden to play and it continued, screaming and attacking me no matter what I did.

I know it's a shitty time for her, i do, but this is constant, relentless and I don't see anyone else we know dealing with this shit. If the baby tries to nap the 5yo screams so he wakes up then laughs, she shouts in his face if he makes a noise and takes any toy he touches away.

I've made sure she isn't pushed out for the baby, that she gets time alone with me and dh, we do activities and games she wants to but it all ends in the screaming and violence.

Dh is wfh so it's me taking the brunt of it while he bitches about the noise. I'm at the point I hate every day because I know what's coming, I can't do anything with the baby because the 5yo gets jealous or I've just told her off so don't want to do something nice with the baby in case she feels pushed out and lashes out again.

Neither child is getting the best of me, this isn't a life. I spend all day every day with one or both children, I am never alone. This is barely surviving each day, I don't feel happiness and I feel even worse because of that. I love both children, of course I adore them, but would it actually matter if I wasn't here anymore?

Only I can't do that either because dh can't cope. His idea of dealing with her behaviour right now is to get angry, I've seen him shout in her face and twice now grab her and move her away too roughly so I have to try to calm her down before it escalates- usually with the baby crying because the noise of the tantrums scares him. Usually dh is great, this situation is affecting us all.

I'm expecting a phone call soon to discuss me going back to work and that thought makes me physically sick. I was bullied all through my pregnancy by my managers and can't even think about being back there. But that's not an option because I have to go back for the money, my plans to look for a new job after mat leave are on hold so there's no escape, no end in sight.

I don't know what I want from this post, needed to get it out somewhere. I used to self harm and find myself craving that release again.

I don't know what to say that will be of any real use to you as I've never been in a situation even as remotely challenging as your day to day sounds. But I did want to say that it really does sound incredibly difficult, and you shouldn't hate yourself for feeling low or like you can't cope.

Have you spoken to your husband about how you feel? Would you feel comfortable letting him see your post? Or writing your thoughts down to give to him if you think it would be more constructive than a conversation?

It's definitely important you talk to him, and it feels as if perhaps he needs to take some family care days (if his company offers those?) or as a minimum some annual leave. Then you could hopefully both use that time to put your heads together and come up with a game plan to make things more manageable.

I don't know if this is something you'd feel open to but I'd also recommend self-referring to your local counseling service. If you don't know how to find them then your GP should be able to give you details. If you explain that you are a potential danger to yourself (through self-harming), they should hopefully be able to set you up with a counselor reasonably quickly.

The only other thing I have to suggest is that you absolutely need to find a way that you can have some time off. My husband and I aren't in a situation like yours but we do a 'shifts' system. At the weekends / when he's on annual leave we split the childcare so someone does the night shift (8pm - 8am), then we alternate 3 hours on and 3 hours off through the rest of the day. Whilst you're 'on your shift' you're the primary carer for the children (or in our case child), and it means the other person is free to do whatever they need to do. Sometimes I use the time to do housework or for us to spend time together as a family, but sometimes I use it just for me. So I'll have a bath, read a book, go for a walk, play some games, have a nap... basically whatever you need to do to help you to recharge your batteries. Perhaps that might be something that could work for you?

It feels very empty to say it, but I really do hope things turn around for you soon and that you find a way to make life more enjoyable.

The first thing that jumped out at me was your daughters behaviour...does she have any suspected SEN? Will she be going back to school as she must be reception age maybe? How is she there?

My son is autistic and a lot of what you are describing was life with him a few years ago. It was really, really tough.

Same here I cant really offer much advise, your day does sound really really hard.

I have a little baby and I couldn't imagine trying to look after them and the same time dealing with that.

I think as the previous writer said you need time off, you definitely need you time!!. And it'll make you feel stronger to deal with your little girl.

As for work, tough situation because during a pandemic looking for another job wont be easy, but you cant make yourself ill, no job or money is worth that. Join a union and it'll make you feel safer.

As for your little girl, no advise but just hope it's a jealousy phase that will balance out. Sorry

No 'me' time as such, baby is bf and super clingy so ends up inconsolable if I try to leave him for more than 10-15 minutes, not helped by lockdown and not seeing or knowing anyone else. I've tried to tell dh but he doesn't take it in so I gave up.

@porktangle no SEN suspected, she's always been... spirited? But no issues at school or at nursery before that. it's only gotten this bad since lockdown. At school she's a lovely, polite, clever and popular kid.

Are you getting out of the house enough? Is there anything she likes doing ?

I've tried to tell dh but he doesn't take it in so I gave up.

If you've tried all of the sensible options then I'd still try talking to him one last time but make it clear you're at the end of your tether and something needs to change. Explain that you will be taking some time for yourself and that you'll be taking it at specific time and date. Obviously it makes sense to pick a time where he's technically available, but then follow through and just leave him to deal with everything. Hopefully, a dose of reality will show him you're not messing around and you really do need help.

Ideally, you'd leave him just after the baby has fed and gone down for a nap. But if you have to then you'd have to take the baby with you and just leave for a bit. The weather is lovely at the moment, go outside and find a bench to sit on for a while. Even just sitting alone with you and the baby, with no other demands on you might make you feel better?

I only have one DD aged 4, but having similar issues here with behaviour. It’s awful. DH and I are also both full time wfh which is shit. If one is working the other is with her being shouted at one way or another. Also get the violent lashing out. She swung from my DH neck the other day, all her weight, he absolutely screamed with pain. It’s awful. It goes on until 9 pm at least, and starts at 5.30 so very little down time from it. Ours is the same at nursery, no problems, no signs of SEN, I just don’t get it. She has no Achilles heal.

I have no idea how to help, but you must get out on your own for a break, even if you take baby. It’s toxic.

Gosh that sounds so tough. Have you spoken to her school about your DD’sv behaviour? Even if it’s just to explain what happens if you try and get her to do work. Sometimes they can be helpful. Or maybe speak to your GP? My kids have had lots of tantrums in their time but two hours is pretty impressive. You must be absolutely exhausted and ground down by everything. I really hope things improve for you. And it would matter hugely if you weren’t here. This is a blip but you will all get over it.

OP that sounds unimaginably hard. I, too, have gone through times when motherhood has felt joyless and there is no judgement from me.

If no-one from nursery or school has reported any issues that's encouraging and implies to me that it's probably a phase. Babies aren't good playmates, and she must be having a tough time with no other children (?) to play with.

I think your partner needs to step up. I am also working full-time from home but it's wholly possible to spend a few hours with the children (or least one of them) before breakfast, during a lunch hour, and/or at bath and bedtime. Does he take her for cycles etc, things the baby can't do? That's not to say he shouldn't have alone-time too; it sounds like you both need it.

Have you read Playful Parenting? It showed me that you don't have to escalate every misdemeanour if you can find the strength to keep things light and humorous. At the same time, shouting in the baby's face (etc) is unacceptable. I would use the naughty step/time out for that kind of behaviour. It sounds to me like she may not know where the line is. You could make a list of golden rules and a cool reward chart (stickers) so there's no ambiguity?

You talk about walking away and self-harming, but you know these are not solutions. I mean this kindly. It will take work to improve her behaviour, but you could see a difference in days. Five-year-olds (and babies) are a challenge, there's no doubt about it, but you can do this. You may find small changes make all the difference to your sense of self-worth. Take baby steps. Find the positives every day if you can. Require support from your partner. See a doctor when you can.

Motherhood has felt like the most isolating thing I've ever done at times, but you are emphatically not alone.

I’m so sorry OP, that sounds awful. I think we are underestimating the effect that lockdown has had on children’s mental health. God knows if or when anything will be done about it, though, as the only thing that seems to matter is COVID. Might your DD’s school take her back if you let them know how much she’s struggling? They are supposed to keep places open for vulnerable children.

I've been having a difficult time with lashing out and horrible behaviour too. I don't have a baby to contend with but am single so I can understand how relentless it feels for you.

I don't have any advice regarding the behaviour as I feel like I am failing with my own DC but wanted to let you know you are not alone.

You must get your DH to take over for a few hours and give you some time out of the house, even if you have to take the baby with you. Can you arrange to meet a friend in the park or just go by yourself and relax or read in the sunshine?

Someone I know was struggling massively in a similar way, they contacted the school and the school agreed for the child to go back with the keyworker children as it was in their best interests.. maybe try that? Xx

No judgement here OP. Just to say that our DD6 is suffering from similar right now, out of character behaviour during the day, much worse at night. We also have DS who is 2 and sometimes, I feel that my attention is more on him because of his age.... I dont know, I think this lockdown is just affecting lots of kids right now. However, your OH needs to understand and respect how worn out you are; wfh or not, he is still a parent and needs to be helping look after the LOs. I take an hour each lunch time (while DH has his lunch break and DS has a nap), let my DD have a film on and sit snuggled up with her Dad and I take a brew and a book and sit in the garden, or our bedroom if the weathers crap. And you know what, yes, it would matter if you weren't there, because YOU matter. X

Have you got a garden or field nearby?

Let her burn off some serious steam and knacker herself out.

Your days sound so incredibly difficult. What does she respond well to?

Op we were in a similar place to you a few years ago. The time outs and limits etc that worked just fine with our calmer eldest just did not work. We came across gentle parenting-game changer. It took time but it worked..it's nothing like permissive parenting (no limits or boundaries) but boundaries and empathy. Take a look at aha Parenting-there are tonnes of resources on there.
You're in the middle of a pandemic with a baby-your daughters behavior no doubt reflects the enormity and scale of both of those things to het world. Obviously this advice is based on Sen not being a factor for which its best to seek professional advice on rather than a forum. Wishing you well.

@PlanetSlattern's suggestion of Playful parenting is a very good one. It's based/linked to peaceful parenting and a big advocate of play to release big emotions through giggling and laughter. It bloody works.

I'm currently working my way through the book 'the explosive child'. I feel your pain

My 9 year old is doing much the same thing. 2-3 hour tantrums, including throwing things at me and screaming whilst I’m on work calls. He now refuses to do any work or play unless I help him with each step.
Before lockdown he could work his way through an 13+ set of Lego on his own no problem. Now he temper tantrums at each step. He was homeschooling brilliantly but the last week has been a nightmare especially as I’m trying to work as well. He has a garden and we go for 2 hour walks every day. I’ve removed tv and phone as punishments but it’s not naughty, he’s just not coping anymore. He just throws full blown temper tantrums like a toddler. Last week he wasn’t angry but just very clingy, crawled into my lap every time I’m on a work call. Now he’s getting cross.

I honestly am on my last legs. I can’t do it anymore.

A few thoughts
Have small goals for schoolwork with a treat if she does it. If she doesn’t engage, scream etc say calmly that’s a shame well try again later or tomorrow. If she’s attacking you then you need to get her in her room, you could be with her but she needs to see a consequence immediately for that behaviour.

She could learn about something she’s interested in like an animal but for now don’t put pressure on yourself if she won’t do it.

Try and get out for exercise as much as you can.

Have time for her but time for the baby. Can’t your husband just have her for a short while?

Contact school for support. Tell them what you’ve put here.

I'll go and look up those books thanks, I'm willing to try anything!

Re exercise, I don't take her out that often as the tantrums carry on and I struggle to control her, the last time it happened I had a woman comment on it and it reduced me to tears but usually it's just a lot of tuts and mutterings when we aren't far enough away from people despite there being nowhere to go. I refuse to drive anywhere as places near us are packed... usually with people showing off the wonderful, wholesome activities their doing with their children while mine screams and hits me because a bug was too close.

I keep saying to myself 'it'll be better when this is over' but there's no end I sight really is there? Social distancing means I'm not going to be able to see my support network, I could have a cleaner and a nanny in and could send dd to school in a couple of weeks but can't see my mum or let her help with the kids. Can't let dd play with her friends who have also been isolated all this time even though I know that would make a huge difference.

Do you find yourself pandering to her when she kicks off? Heaping on the attention to try and keep the hysteria down? If so, stop. Just ignore her. If she goes for you then just move her away and explain you'll talk to her when she can calms down. Grey rock I think they call it.

It will take a lot of time and effort before she gets the message but she needs to learn that aggression and screaming won't get her any sort of attention or reinforcement. Good luck x

OP you are not alone. My DD4 is behaving like this and it is soul-destroying. Every thing we have tried like behaviour charts, rewards, consequences etc., are pointless with her as she just doesn't care! I have no advice (sorry) but just wanted to say it's nothing you have done wrong, especially with a younger child in tow too. We will get through it, promise. In the meantime, unabashed hugs from me. I also find putting Scooby Doo on the TV distracts her for some reason!

Get help. Don't do this alone, it isn't getting any better. Speak to pastoral team at school/GP. There are also parenting support helplines, sure google can help you there. Don't continue this way, like you say there's a long road ahead for your health but also for hers bring someone qualified and experienced in - that is good parenting, it is protective and helpful but yes, hard to do. School probably a good place to start, be really honest though. Good luck.

First off this is not your fault. I've brought up 4 kids. Two of whom have been compliant, easy going, helpful if overly chatty children. If I had had those two I would be he smuggest parent alive. The other 2 are hard work; I've worked out over the years that they are much more sensitive to pretty much everything than the other 2. So too much stimulation (screens/friends over/parties) send them over the edge. They can be violent (to each other), destructive, endlessly carrying on an arguement (for hours). My 10 year old daughter sounds incredibly similar to yours. Perfect at school (attentive/popular/helpful) fucking nightmare at home. Punishments are the worse thing for her and send her into a spiral of destruction..she never care about the punishment. Reacting to her: in anyway shouting/exclusion to trying to reason with her or bargain so send her into rage unless she gets her own way. I love her
but it's exhausting. Star charts etc are slightly better but only to bring some times of good never to stop the tantrums etc.When Im on form the only things that work are:

1. Planning the next day with her. Writing out a "timetable" : picnic in the park/times to watch TV/homework time etc in a way she can plan. Choosing what's for tea.

This gives her a sense of routine and control. Make a new one each night.

1. Playful parenting. She doesn't like the tantrums etc and it gives her a get out.
2. Walking away at the first sign of twatishness. Completely ignoring the bad behaviour. Either distract through playful parenting or something else entirely. "Oh is that the door?". Give her space to calm down.
3. Telling everyone (Nanna/aunties/friends/pretend phone call to school) about how amazing she is behaving. Wait til she hasn't been naughty for 5 minutes then phone or pretend to phone someone and was lyrical how amazing she is. So kind/funny/great big sister/. Let her hear you say how much you are loving being with her and how great she is. (This one was a game changer: my DD thought I hated her and the sometimes I do, it's hard to be nice if you think your Mum doesn't like you). Fake it til you make it.

Baby steps. Good luck I feel your pain.

Sorry for all the typos!