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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder if I'm making a boy who will be an arsehole?

73 replies

Eggybreadleg · 20/05/2020 16:55

I'm so upset and absolutely raging at DS. Earlier in the year he told a classmate he was brown like poo and his we, his teacher and the head made a big deal out telling him this wasn't ok. We went over racism etc and he was sanctioned at school as well as punished at home. We made him write the other boy a letter of apology and I really thought he got it. Now today I got called by school to tell me he'd done it again! For reference DS does have high functioning autism. I feel like ripping all his lego out of his room and putting in the bin. I'm worried I'm going to unleash an arsehole on the world. Why doesn't he get this is such a big deal?

OP posts:
NellyNoNorks · 20/05/2020 21:20

Do people really not worry about what kind of adult their kids will be? I feel a huge sense of responsibility that I don't unleash someone especially a white man into the world who acts like an arse

Of course people worry about this. However, I think my son - who is now a man - is not an arse. However, I would hope that all my children are not arses. Modelling acceptable behaviour is the best thing you can do, and getting angry is the worst.

monkeymonkey2010 · 20/05/2020 21:42

Other kid said why am I idiot and DS said "because you're brown"

This has nothing to do with his high functioning autism - he knew exactly what he was doing and his intention behind it.
I guess he thinks he can use his autism to justify his racist comment?

It's an insult to all autists to blame his racist behaviour on our neurological wiring.

Eggybreadleg · 20/05/2020 22:30

He's 8 @monkeymonkey2010. He doesn't even really know what autism is or the ramifications of etc. Hes been told he's autistic but he forgets and doesn't really mean anything to him. He's never used his autism to justify himself. But it is relative to the conversation because how he processes emotional/societal concepts is different and hence why I mentioned it.

OP posts:
WiddlinDiddling · 20/05/2020 23:26

Yes, the first time it was factual... Then he learned how much power to express strong feelings, how much attention, that such comments got him. In effect the reaction to that incident taught him that brown is different, brown is a bad thing and that's a way of expressing his own anger.

He isn't racist, if he'd lashed out at a kid with red hair or specs and had a right bollocking over it, he'd have had that particular difference highlighted to him and would have used that instead.

Being autistic means you struggle to understand, manage and contain or express your own feelings, asking him to understand or empathise with someone elses feelings is likely a wholly alien concept to him.

So you'll need to ask him not to use those words for some other reason, one he can understand as a rule, for a motivator he does grasp properly.

Give him an alternative outlet for when he is angry or frustrated, give him words he can use, a code if you like so that you know how he feels and he knows you know.

Life as an autistic person is intensely frustrating and baffling, and that's for an adult. For a child who doesn't yet know that most people's brains work differently, and all this weird shit makes total sense to everyone else but not them... It must be so draining!

Eggybreadleg · 21/05/2020 08:02

@WiddlinDiddling School we're allowing him to leave the room when he got frustrated and the senco was helping him to work on anger. We've been trying at home for him to own his feelings etc when he's angry or frustrated but with not huge amounts of success. School's supervision is absolutely crap and they aren't supporting him at all in the same way right now because the teachers aren't in. Maybe it's too much for him and I'm going to have to keep him home .

OP posts:
GreytExpectations · 21/05/2020 08:22

if he'd lashed out at a kid with red hair or specs and had a right bollocking over it, he'd have had that particular difference highlighted to him and would have used that instead.

I hate this comparison. It's ridiculous to suggest a racist comment is equivalent to insulting someone's hair. It isn't and if you'd had to deal with racist comments as a child in the form of bullying you wouldn't think this.

motherheroic · 21/05/2020 08:40

@Pixxie7 He said the other kid was an idiot because he was brown.

How is that 'a statement as he saw it' unless you also agree that brown people are idiots?

EmeraldShamrock · 21/05/2020 08:56

At 8 he should know better with ASD if in mainstream.
My little boy age 5 was fixated as 2 Filipino boys in the class he kept asking why they'd the same face.
I think your boy was racist? I know by 8 my eldest ASD was well aware of skin colour from different activities in school and at home.
Her skin is peach she still describes a white person as peach she's a preteen now.
I'd have serious words with him.

picklemewalnuts · 21/05/2020 09:09

There's two things going on he wants to upset a boy he dislikes and he used a racist term to do it.
The latter is socially unacceptable and he needs to learn not to. There will be many things he needs to learn matter to other people, if not to him.

Does he dislike the boy because he is minority ethnic? That is racist.
Does he dislike many people because they are BAME? That is racist.

Using a racist insult because it's a winning shot is nasty stupid, I'm not sure it means he's racist.

You may get on better tackling 'don't say mean things to hurt people'.

Teaching him that some insults are extra powerful and unacceptable may be just give him ammunition.

And you may find an approach like 'clever people don't say things like that. Do you want people to think you aren't clever?' is effective.

GreytExpectations · 21/05/2020 09:13

@Pixxie7 so are you in agreement with the OP's son that "Brown people are idiots"? Because that's what you are suggesting by staying it was a "statement as he saw it"

The child clearly had the intention to hurt with his comment and he was well aware of its meaning. Not sure how anyone can excuse that behaviour. OP, you need to seek specialist support for your son.

GreytExpectations · 21/05/2020 09:17

And you may find an approach like 'clever people don't say things like that. Do you want people to think you aren't clever?' is effective.

What an awful message to give to a child. So those academically smart kids with good marks aren't ever bullies? They can't possibly be racist? What utter bullshit. You are also suggesting a child assume children who are struggling at school, who may not be as academically smart must be the mean ones?

picklemewalnuts · 21/05/2020 09:19

Great Expectations not at all. It's a message specifically for this child in this situation, to appeal to his own self interest when 'be nice' isn't working.

dropthemic · 21/05/2020 09:27

Hi OP. Firstly ignore posters here who are trying to imply you are racist or think other children are thick. They are willfully ignoring what you mean.
I have worked with children and adults with autism. Once you met one person with autism, you have met one person with autism, no size will fit all.
I suspect that he was very upset and knew the comment would hurt. Children, with or without autism do that. Its not ok and you know that and you are trying to do something about it. Children can be assholes, I'm sure I was for time to time,
because of the way parents handle these situations is the reason children learn not to do it and not become adults who are assholes.
Because of his autism I would approach some of it from a logical point of view. Racist comments are against the law. If you are adult and say them them you can lose your job/go to jail/get fined. Whatever the law is where you are. When you are a child you are suspended from school. A social story could help here. Still work on how it's hurts another person and the history of racism but in the moment when he is angry the black and white thinking of its against the law may stop him from saying it. This would have worked with some children I worked with and not others so you know your child best and if law/rule breaking is important to him.

GreytExpectations · 21/05/2020 09:29

It's a message specifically for this child in this situation, to appeal to his own self interest when 'be nice' isn't working.

Except the issue is you just give that child more ammunition. He is already referring to people as idiots. Clearly linking behaviour and intelligence will only encourage him to keep calling people idiots.

Porcupineinwaiting · 21/05/2020 09:35

Love all the people on here falling over themselves to explain why the clearly racist kid isnt racist. Wonder if it feels like that to his victim?

icansmellburningleaves · 21/05/2020 09:43

I would punishing him by taking something away that he loves, ie Lego. Just because he has autism it doesn’t mean he can behave badly. He’s clearly not just stating fact (the other boy has brown skin) he is using that fact to be horrible to the other boy. I wonder where he’s picked this up from. Maybe if he’s heard you describing bottom of the class kids as thick, he thinks it’s ok to say horrible things.

dropthemic · 21/05/2020 09:49

@porcupineinwaiting I suspect it feels awful for the child on the recieving end of the comment. That's why the Op is so upset and wants to stop the behaviour. But he is 8,i think calling him a racist is a bit premature. But what do you suggest? Public stoning at noon for the Op and her child? Or actual advice that might work so he doesn't repeat the behaviour and hurt another child.

Porcupineinwaiting · 21/05/2020 10:00

I suggest that the OPs son's behaviour needs to either be stopped dead in his tracks or the school should keep him isolated from the other boy til they are sure he can control his mouth. There's too much of this in schools - one child expected to absorb dozens of racial slurs whilst a handful of other kids are taught to play nice.

GreytExpectations · 21/05/2020 10:06

Just because he has autism it doesn’t mean he can behave badly.

This 100%. I really wish more people would think this way. He needs his behaviour managed properly but it shouldn't be excused.

zingally · 21/05/2020 10:46

Yes, being Autistic makes this more complicated. However, you son chose to comment on skin colour BECAUSE he knew it would upset the other child.

For that reason alone, I'd say there needs to be some sort of punishment because he made a deliberate choice to say something that he knew would hurt someones feelings.

Your son might believe it was justified because the other kid "started it", and there's a truth to that, but I'd gloss over it with a "yes, and Bob is getting a punishment from his parents for that as well." It doesn't necessarily need to be true.
But then your son needs to know that HIS punishment is coming because he used his words to hurt someone else, and that's not okay.
In terms of what the punishment is, that's your call. You know him best, and know what'll make an impact, but he needs to clearly and repeatedly hear the message "you chose to use your words to hurt someone."

Frankly, I'd leave all the implied racism for another day, once things have settled down. He needs more books/films/tv shows with ethnically diverse characters, and a talk about how and why people come in different colours.

Eggybreadleg · 21/05/2020 12:14

I have at no point said his autism excuses his behaviour. It does however give context. We have 3 other children who are NT and none of them have ever said anything racists before. I do think how we approach it does change because of his autism. I think whoever said that we made too big of a fuss the first time was right. All he learned was that it's a very hurtful thing and gave him ammunition. We came down like a ton of bricks the first time and it didn't work. Hence I'm mortified and exasperated and asking for help.

OP posts:
backseatcookers · 21/05/2020 12:57

I think it's difficult sometimes to separate the behaviour from the person as a whole without feeling we are damning them.

But it's important to accept your son has now done racist bullying on two occasions.

His autism needs to be taken into account with regards to managing his behaviour and the consequences of this but he has been guilty of racist bullying.

That doesn't mean he is going to be a racist bully as an adult but he has been guilty of racist bullying now on two separate occasions.

What is the school's plan of action? This needs to be dealt with swiftly because the poor other lads must be really sad this has happened more than once.

Pixxie7 · 21/05/2020 17:22

I am not saying it’s right at all, what I am saying is that if he had said you are an idiot because you have curly hair it would be racist. Of course it’s wrong in both cases but one is racist one is not.

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