To feel like parents aren't allowed to criticise teachers anymore?

[velaryon]

I have the utmost respect for the teaching profession, especially the hard work and dedication of many teachers despite a pandemic and nationwide lockdown.
But at the same time, I've seen a lot of parents genuinely concerned about the teaching & communication at their DC's school who were immediately accused of 'teacher bashing' and being too lazy to teach their own children.
AIBU to think this is absolutely ridiculous?
I don't see anything wrong with questioning the level of teaching a school is providing, provided it's done in a sensitive and understanding way. IMO it's ridiculous how quickly someone is accused of teacher bashing for asking a legitimate question.

There's such variation between schools though. People might be more understanding if we really were all in this together but instead you get some schools who are providing quite a comprehensive education and others where a couple of worksheets have been handed out and that is all.

ChloeDecker I'm talking about society in general, surely you must know how carers are treated?

People might be more understanding if we really were all in this together but instead you get some schools who are providing quite a comprehensive education and others where a couple of worksheets have been handed out and that is all.

Maybe those schools are having to manage DCs of key workers with minimal staffing. If they don't have the staff I'm not sure what you expect them to do.

If your DC's school is inadequate then it's up to you to pick up the slack. There are plenty of resources out there.

See, I don’t think this is good enough. Parents are not trained, experienced in, or paid to do this job. Teachers are.

In many cases, parents are working full time on top of this, they’ve enough to worry about. It’s not right to dump this on them.

A minimum standard of provision should have been agreed by leadership and adhered to. The variation in quality being reported is shocking.

Three TAs I know ( primary ) have worked one day a week on a rota system all implemented by the school. It's not their fault if this is how it's been handled and the school had very few children in anyway. Having staff in when they didn't need to be would be madness surely?
A few worked from home or done e learning but generally they have been home.
The teachers and SLTs have been in every day.
It seems fair enough to me but I guess people will moan whatever they had brought in!! they all would rather be at work and can't wait to go back properly even though they admit that it's quite stressful.

@Mistressiggi. Exactly. I am teaching via the internet but my house is spotless and the car is stuffed full of rubbish for the tip when it opens and there are boxes ready for the charity shop. I gain about 1hr 45 minutes a day just by working from my kitchen table and am not able to do some of my usual activities so consequently have more free time. It’s not rocket science. But hey ho, I should be a slave to the children.

Why shouldn't an individual in lockdown get more diy projects done by the way? In the normal run of things, would you be shocked that she went to yoga, or for a swim, went out to eat?

I wouldn't expect a person doing a full time job to be working on extensive DIY projects during the working day. Sure, an hour here and there would be ok, but it didn't sound like that was what she would be doing.

The point was about communication anyway, not how people spend working hours. I wouldn't say to my customers "Oh great, now I'm working from home I can get all my fences painted!" even if I was intending to do it when I'm not supposed to be working. It just wouldn't look great.

See, I don’t think this is good enough. Parents are not trained, experienced in, or paid to do this job. Teachers are

Parents are not paid to educate their children?

Well, that explains some of shite parenting seen by teaching staff in UK schools, doesn’t it?! Why should parents help educate their kids during an unprecedented global pandemic? I mean seriously, why should parents help their kids to help themselves? It’s not as if educating children was an essential element of parenting, is it? Only people paid to teach are part of the process of educating...Jesus bloody wept.

Why should parents help educate their kids during an unprecedented global pandemic?

Absolutely no one is saying that parents shouldn’t help educate their child.

However, it should not be expected that they just ‘pick up the slack’ of something they have not been trained to do, because the teacher, whose job it is, is not delivering.

ChloeDecker

I don’t agree with teacher bashing at any point.

I’m not sending my own DS back as he’s vulnerable (Y6), teachers have the same concerns as do I, irregardless if they are parents or not.

Some of the points you’ve mention, albeit not nice are genuine feelings some parents have, and although I wouldn’t be positing one MN about them some do for reasons only known to them.

I don’t agree with the teacher bashing threads or dismissing teachers feelings regarding Covid-19 and the H&S guidance (or lack off) around their return to school re-opening on 1st June.

My issues is and always will be of around those threads where a OP have a genuine query/frustration/vent due to their children’s educational needs/issues not be met/ignored etc...

On the whole majority of teacher I know are bloody fantastic, however during this pandemic children’s education in some schools is simply below par, for what ever reason and no excuse/reason should this ever be acceptable as frankly we don’t know when schools are going back, and the reality is that this maybe the “new normal”

@teacherteacher1

in another class a parent kicked up merry hell because a teacher hadn't replied to an e-mail within the morning, kicked up a fuss and had to be told by the head that they had just got off the phone with the teacher who's father had died from Covid

This is appalling. No head teacher should be giving out personal information about staff to parents. It is absolutely no one else’s business. The Head should only have said ‘Mrs X is on leave right now’ and nothing else. This kind of confidentiality ‘breech’ only goes to ‘prove ‘ to parents that they get a say in how individual teachers are managed. Totally out of order.

However, it should not be expected that they just ‘pick up the slack’ of something they have not been trained to do, because the teacher, whose job it is, is not delivering

See the 3 million posts that have gone before. Teachers are people too. We are going through the same shit as everyone else. Given the current situation, a significant number of education staff, as with elsewhere, are on sick leave or compassionate leave. Usually a supply teacher would pick up the slack. Supply teachers are not being employed to deliver remote learning.

I wouldn't expect a person doing a full time job to be working on extensive DIY projects during the working day.
Extensive - new kitchen? Or putting up shelves?
The working day is an interesting one. If you want to restrict the working day for teachers to certain hours (9-5 maybe?) that would be great for a lot of us as we would not be doing the marking-at-midnight in order to keep on top of it all at a time when our dc are asleep. You can't have it both ways, either we have flexibility about when we work, or we don't.

However, it should not be expected that they just ‘pick up the slack’ of something they have not been trained to do, because the teacher, whose job it is, is not delivering.

I cannot understand this attitude. I've already explained the reasons why teachers may be unable to deliver what you demand but you seem not to have listened.

Your child is just one among many, as mine were. I sure as hell would never have let them fall behind, whatever the reason.

See the 3 million posts that have gone before. Teachers are people too. We are going through the same shit as everyone else

Of course. But I think you’ll find other people cannot treat their jobs as optional. They wouldn’t have them for very long if they did.

Yes cover is a challenge, as it is in other industries with sickness and furloughing compounding matters. However they don’t get away with just not delivering anything because it’s tough right now.

There are significant numbers of teachers right now who are doing nothing or very little. That’s failing the children they teach.

I am totally aware that there are also numerous teachers who are working hard right now. I don’t get why they aren’t more annoyed by those who aren’t.

I've already explained the reasons why teachers may be unable to deliver what you demand but you seem not to have listened.

So my considerable ‘demands’ involve slightly more engaged and involved provision that one worksheet emailed a week, no feedback, no response to emails.

Would you defend this as ‘good enough’ provision by the school?

No, I wouldn't and my staff provide considerably more than that. But I can't speak for your school and whether they would say it was acceptable. I don't know what they have been asked to provide or the circumstances the staff are working under. No one on here can.

I'm talking about society in general, surely you must know how carers are treated?
Yes I do WaterOffADucksCrack which was why I asked you where all the recent carer bashing threads were on Mumsnet, after you responded to me stating starting thread after thread criticising cares would be unfair and you followed it with..
Me:Starting thread after thread to complain about and criticise all carers in the current pandemic on the other hand, would be wrong and seems to be a more relevant comparison I would have thought
You: That happens constantly
Glad to know it doesn’t happen constantly as threads on Mumsnet. I would hate for that to happen as carers as a whole don’t deserve that.

Yes, I agree wintertravel1980 but I was responding to this line from Tootletum Seems like there is little to no sign of children under 10 being even able to spread it never mind catch it. I.e it is not true to say there is little to no sign of children under 10 catching it. There is some evidence and a quote from The Lancet article found that The study, done in Shenzhen, found the virus's 'attack rate' among children was 7.4 per cent, which was on par with the 6.6 per cent seen in the general population. This meant that children were as likely as adults to both catch the virus and to spread it.. so there is also some evidence of spread there too but there is just not enough research out yet to show either way, as admitted by the ‘science’ from the government.

Thank you HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend. I completely agree with you.
I would also like to follow on from your point that My issues is and always will be of around those threads where a OP have a genuine query/frustration/vent due to their children’s educational needs/issues not be met/ignored etc in that it goes both ways and some of the regular posters who do ‘bash’ teachers or at least throw in the same goady one liners should also avoid hijacking those threads and derailing them too.

I absolutely agree. In comparison there is a thread about some bin men swearing. We didn't get armies of bin men starting threads saying they are all being worked go the bone and nobody has a clue how stressful their jobs are. Or folk starting a naice thread about how wonderful bin men are and only lovely comments allowed. It's getting quite ridiculous.

I don't know what they have been asked to provide or the circumstances the staff are working under. No one on here can.

It’s the lack of clarity on this that’s causing all the problems.

And yes, this is about leadership, not individual teachers.

The other school in the area is getting much more involved provision. Short zoom sessions, daily videos, lots of feedback. Obviously parents are frustrated to see the huge variation in quality. Who wouldn’t be?

I don’t think it was good enough at government or sector leadership level to just leave it at not obligation’. There should have been some standard agreed. And stuck to. And also much greater cooperation between schools in terms of sharing ideas and covering for each other if necessary.

But zoom sessions and daily videos are not necessarily better provision for everyone, households vary just as much as schools do. We don't use zoom or any other sharing platform because many of our children have extremely limited access and wouldn't be able to participate. We don't use videos because they are incredibly time consuming to create and there are much better, more professional ones available which we link work to. We have had complaints from parents that we are providing far too much to do and the expectation is to much, we spend considerable amounts of time reassuring parents that they do what they can do and that's fine. We are working with another local school to share out planning but sharing staff is not possible. However we take in keyworker children from other schools who can't access provision.
The government HAVE set a basic provision, BBC bitesize and Oak National Academy. We provide more than that, many schools provide more than we do!

I cannot understand this attitude. I've already explained the reasons why teachers may be unable to deliver what you demand but you seem not to have listened

I’m sorry Lemon, I disagree with this somewhat, as you’re generalising also, it may be the reasons you’ve mentioned, however it may not, as you cannot speak for all schools.

Some schools are giving excellent homeschools provisions and others are not, an OP posted a thread that her child was only receiving 20 mins work on line for the school for the whole week, no other work was being sent or set up, she was shot down as “teacher bashing) even tho she has spoken to the head teacher who advised this was acceptable

Parents are going to look at the teachers if their children’s educational needs aren’t being met, as it’s the teacher who should be supplying the homeschool class work. (or a teacher within the setting) and yes it may be the management politics that stopping children from getting adequate education, or that the teacher is sick etc... however the politics/management or what ever reason within the schools has absolutely nothing to do with the parents whose frustrated their children aren’t even getting a basic education, might seem unpopular but sadly true.

And I’m not teacher bashing, speaking to teacher friends (Scotland and England) the past few months and speaking to a few teachers this morning during a CORE meetings, they advised their schools teacher are working on a rota, (taking turns to educate key workers children’s)

I can give you an example of a meeting today, vulnerable home, a teacher is delivering pack lunches to the homes everyday, this child does not have the internet at home, so therefore other than the original workbooks sent on the 23rd March they have had no other provisions, parents frustrated with this. Teacher said it was their fault the child has no access to the internet

It took me to say if your delivering packed lunches everyday why can’t school work be delivered at the same time? Apparently they advised they will look into it.

It’s took me a 10 min call with the headteacher and this child will now be receiving work with weekly phone calls to discussing any issues the child may have, the work will also be marked and feedback given.

However so many children will be in similar positions as I’ve just said above sadly.

But again Viviennemary there is a clear distinction between some bin men swearing to ‘all bin men are lazy/use foul language’ hence you get such a different response with the former. I have seen a few threads that parents have started in a reasonable way and they have stayed reasonable and helpful. The ones that haven’t stayed reasonable are the ones that have started out with goady opening posts or thread titles (see above) or have had posters drop in goady comments to get a reaction. I mean, I didn’t think it was particularly necessary of you that you posted a derogatory comment on the thanking teachers thread started by a junior doctor. It works both ways.

LaurieMarlow
I know when you first mentioned the problems you had had with your DC’s teacher and I remember lots of teachers including me did suggest contacting the school (or Head was it) because it was still fairly early on and I am so so sorry that even after doing that, nothing has improved for you. You have every right to feel as you do and I would be taking it further as a formal complaint and see that through. I still think though, that it has been highlighted that that has not been the experience of a lot of parents so it is still not representative of all teachers, which some (I am not saying you) take that as what is indicative of U.K. teachers currently. And just to be picky (again, sorry, I don’t mean to antagonise) but with this point But I think you’ll find other people cannot treat their jobs as optional. They wouldn’t have them for very long if they did. that this is not true for other jobs either and there are lots of people in other jobs who do the bare minimum and still don’t get fired etc. I know, I have worked with them and they are still in those roles (I wasn’t always a teacher)

Lemon I’m not disagreeing with you fully, just a little, the whole bloody thing is a mess, teachers frustrated, parents frustrated, management frustrated as no clarity so cannot set expectations and everyone is in limbo, not to mention their feelings around Covid-19 etc... and then not being able to see loved ones... the whole bloody thing is just a mass of frustrated mess

But zoom sessions and daily videos are not necessarily better provision for everyone, households vary just as much as schools do.

No, there’s no one size fits all. But the gulf between what they’ve provided and the ‘worksheet a week’ approach is really significant.

Surely you can see why parents are annoyed by that?

And while all the online resources are great, they need significant understanding, tailoring, and input from parents to use effectively. There are many parents who don’t have the skills or the time to do this.

I just don’t think that the leaders within the sector have taken their remit to educate children seriously. That’s a disgrace.

I have huge respect for the schools who have done their own thing and delivered. I just wish that ours was one of them.