To ask whether anyone has made a complaint about police and had a positive outcome?

[Chinchinatti]

I've made a complaint against police and bodycams were not turned on for the first half of the encounter (I was not aware of this until I made the complaint). It's now with the Professional Standards something or another but they're very very slow to act. Last I heard was two weeks ago and I emailed yesterday and was informed this morning that I will receive an update every 28 days. Is this bloody acceptable?

Trust me, police officers are not protected in the event of complaints. I was called a cunt and we spoke to the guy and warned him about his language.

He came to the office to complainEd we had warned him and his complaint was taken and investigated. He freely admitted called us cunts as he didn’t like the police but his complaint was we had spoken to him. So no, there is no “look after themselves” these days.

Complaints are easily made by the public and are rightly investigated.

The problem with trying to spin a fiction that the police are "just like us" is that it is manifest bollocks.

I don't have the powers of arrest.
I don't get to speed around in high speed pursuits.
I don't get to play with toys like tasers, guns and CS spray.
I don't get to handcuff people against their will and call on my mates to hold someone down to do it.
etc etc

So the police are clearly nothing like "us" and need to remember it and act accordingly. And if they feel it's too much for them, rather than whining in interviews about the tough job they chose to do, they should leave and let someone who is prepared to take it seriously do it.

2000-2019 you were much more likely to die after an encounter with the police than in a terrorist attack in the UK.

Yes, I have had people die quite a short time after coming into contact with me.

2000-2019 you were much more likely to die after an encounter with the police than in a terrorist attack in the UK

I bet if I could bothered to look it up you were also more likely to die falling down the stairs as well.

they should leave and let someone who is prepared to take it seriously do it
Why don’t you apply?

Yes, I have had people die quite a short time after coming into contact with me.

Nothing will ever excuse the sheer horror of knowing an innocent man had his head turned into bloody goo by seven aimed shots in an operation that made the Marx Brothers look like the NASA control centre. (And that's not commenting on the orchestrated cover up seconds after the smoke cleared).

That's why the police are not, and will never be "like us".

I bet if I could bothered to look it up you were also more likely to die falling down the stairs as well.

But that would be a stupid thing to do, as UK police don't tend to off suspects by pushing them down the stairs these days.

Now Italian anarchists and windows ...

ProfessorSlocombe So I’m not like you and other people on this thread?

Nicky you arent (thankfully!) As you appear to be able to think and write rationally! To the poster that listed all the 'stuff' police 'get to do'.. you could apply that to any job could you not?

So I’m not like you and other people on this thread?

rather worried you need to ask that question, if you are a real police officer. You know you have powers - in or out of uniform - that I don't. and when I say powers I mean powers. You can stop me out and about if you so choose and ask me to account for myself. If you don't like the answer you can detain me to corroborate what I've told you.

I'm just trying to imagine what would happen if I tried to stop the next police officer I saw walking down the road (admittedly I might wait a long time) and reverse the situation.

So no, you aren't "just like us".

Now that is part of the social contract we all buy into to try and maintain a society based on the rule of law and where justice replaces revenge. I know all of that. And I'd rather live under the rule of law - or as close as we can get - than see the UK turn into a failed lawless state where it's whoever has the most mates with most guns that is right. But a contract it is. We - the people - give up some of our freedoms in the exchange for the protection of law. Obviously some of us attach more value to those freedoms than others. But that's inherent in those freedoms.

Titiana Sadly I don’t get to speed about in high speed pursuits anymore. I miss those!

Here's a quote from Her Majestys Inspectorate of Constabulary commissioned literature review into Police Corruption and Integrity in 2015 and why the notion of 'bad apples' is damaging when applied to the Police Force as the "history of Policing has too many examples of institutionalised corruption for this 'explanation' to carry much credence"

"‘Bad apples’
When corruption is uncovered there is a tendency within organisations, including
the police service, to suggest or imply that the problem is one that is confined to
a few rogue members or ‘bad apples’. This canard can be dealt with quickly.
First, whilst it is perfectly possible, on occasion, for an individual, or a small
number of individuals, to engage in highly unethical conduct, the history of
policing has too many examples of institutionalised corruption for this
‘explanation’ to carry much credence. Moreover, the notion of ‘bad apples’ has a
number of far-reaching and potentially damaging implications. First, it narrows
the scope of attention, often directing concern away from others – often those in
positions of power and authority – whose conduct also ought to be subject to
critical scrutiny. Second, it implies that, barring the individual ‘bad apples’,
everything in the organisation is otherwise sound. This is rarely the case. Third,
and linked to this earlier point, the very notion of ‘bad apples’ implies little is
required other than the investigation and punishment of these individuals.
Punishment, often severe, of a small number of individuals therefore becomes
the default response to a corruption scandal.
Such a response is flawed in at least two ways. It is informed by general
deterrence theory, and assumes that such punishments will ‘send out a
message’ to other officers about expected standards of conduct. This may have
some substance but the evidence for any deterrent effect is not strong (Tonry,
2008). Worse still, as suggested, such an approach fails to identify all those
likely to be implicated in the ‘wrongdoing’ (often failing to hold supervisors or
managers to account for example) and also fails to confront the structural
problems or issues that tend to underpin the misconduct at the centre of the
scandal. Indeed, there is little that could be more damaging to the health of the
police service than recourse to a ‘bad apples’ explanation in response to
corruption. As the American reformist Commissioner, Patrick V Murphy, once
put it: “The task of corruption control is to examine the barrel, not just the apples
– the organization, not just the individuals in it – because corrupt police are
made, not born.” (quoted in Barker and Carter, 1986: 10). "

Acknowledging concerns about Police corruption (which the Police share) is not an attack or criticism of individual officers but concerns about the culture.

Professor I cannot stop people like you seem to think and make you account for yourself. There will be legislation under The Terrorism Act but not for day to day situations. So you are wrong.

And yes I am just like everyone else. I just do a job that I generally leave at the door of the police office.

And yes I am just like everyone else. I just do a job that I generally leave at the door of the police office.

I didn't read about a change to police powers. When did that happen ?

What are your talking about?

Nicknacky, you still have your powers even when you have finished your shift.

Professor I’m well aware of that. In reality I (and most other officers) will only get involved in an incident off duty only if it is completely necessary, and often that will be reporting incidents on 999. Quite often I have my children with me and I would be unable to intervene unless it was truly life of death.

Anyway, I have spoken to you on more than a few anti-police threads and I don’t expect anything I say to change your opinion so I won’t try.

And I fear we have sidetracked the op’s post.

I think it's difficult to offer an opinion without an outline of the circumstances. Are you able to say anything about the complaint?

If 'nothing criminal' was going on, why did you expect for the BWV to be turned on? They aren't just constantly rolling. Their purpose is an extra 'witness' to the commission of a crime, so if there was no crime taking place then I don't see why you thought there would be a recording.

I made a complaint against the police roughly 15 years ago, I was called a black bitch by an officer with another officer standing right next to him. Can't remember if body cams was a thing then unfortunately.

Complaint made, the reply was that someone spoke to both officers and the officer corroborated what was said by the other. So that was the end of it, all denied as if I had made it up.

But that would be a stupid thing to do

According to the BBC 1000 people In the UK died after falling down the stairs in the year 2000 alone. And 100,000 people were injured.

According to The Guardian 23 people died in police custody in 2017/18, apparently the worst figure in ten years, although the IOPC said the vast majority of those who died had prior problems involving mental health, drugs or alcohol

According to The Telegraph 126 people died in terrorist incidents in the UK between 2000 and 2017.

So yes 2000-2019 you were much more likely to die after an encounter with the police than in a terrorist attack in the UK.

But statistics can be twisted to make most any point you want. The above statistic sounds dramatic and shocking but stairs are in fact much much more dangerous than the police or terrorists. Should we eradicate stairs?

OP, it really does depend on the complaint and the circumstances. My family legally challenged the police and won their case in court. It took a long time and a lot of aggro.

We do know that a report commisioned by HM inspectorate of constabulary into Police corruption and integrity in 2015 found that about 50% of over 17,000 officers and staff surveyed said they would fear reporting their colleagues because they had no confidence it would be properly investigated by their superiors and feared it would cause harm to their own careers.

If almost half the force have concerns about how allegations against their colleagues would be handled, I don't know why the public should feel more confident.

Someone I know put in danger by actions of domestic abuse team. Investigated by another force, visited and interviewed by superintendent - result: profuse apologies, protocols changed and head of team moved to another department. Good result.

@ElinoristhenewEnid That's encouraging.

@NoAdventureNoTime Pretty much what has happened so far.

If 'nothing criminal' was going on, why did you expect for the BWV to be turned on?

It never occurred to me, but they have apparently already been spoken to about the necessity of the cams to be turned on whenever they enter a scene, irrespective of the type of call-out, according to the initial sergeant who called me back.

I actually didn't escalate it myself. I made a complaint via 101, had the details taken by some dude on the phone who said and I quote 'they are both excellent police officers'. He then called back and said he had reviewed the body cam footage and there was no footage of the beginning of the encounter (majority of my complaint). I then received a call back from a sergeant who said that she had spoken to their sergeant who had reminded them of the necessity to have their cams on at all times. She then asked me whether I was happy with the outcome, and not having much faith in the process, I said that I was - and that I just hoped that they would receive further training on dealing with the type of situation that I was in effectively. I thought that was the end of that and was quite happy (as you can be when you expect fuck all) that they had at least been spoken to. I presumed that was the end of that.

About 1 month ago (about 3 weeks after me making the complaint), I then received a registered letter from the Police Standards something or another asking me to respond within 7 days if I wished to proceed with my complaint. She had summarised my complaint briefly, so I emailed her and clarified/corrected some elements of what my complaint entailed - my complaint had two elements to it - one part of which had the body cams off, the other part of which had the body cams on. So said officer emailed back clarifying my 'heads of complaint' as she called it and that was that. Didn't hear from her for 2 weeks so emailed to find out what was happening and she replied saying that I would receive an update every 28 days. A little slow I'd have thought.

In any case, what's done is done, it has greatly affected my view of the 'force' and cemented my distrust of 'justice' for want of a better word. I was pretty traumatised as a result of the encounter as 95% of the time I've had nothing but positive encounters with the police here.

I'm sorry that I'm not willing to go into further details, but you must understand that given the nature of what I'm asking about, it's not something that I wish to spout all over the internet.

I was just wondering if in general anyone had had a satisfactory outcome (to them) from having made a complaint.

I don't hold much hope as I've already been told that their version of events conflicts with mine (the part unrecorded). I'm just hoping that the fact that presumably my version of events that was recorded has been proven to be factual, means that they might actually believe me about the first part. Again, as I said, it never occurred to me that there would be any bodycam footage, let alone that it might be looked at.

Sorry for being vague, but think of a situation where police might be involved when no crime has been committed.... That's as much as I'll say.

Oh and just to add - this is not a police bashing thread as has been suggested. It's a question which happens to involve the police.