Do you think there will be a united Ireland before the end of the decade?

[KenDodd]

Yabu = no
Yanbu = yes

The thing that blew my mind completely, though, when the DUP took on their new prominence in Westminster in recent years, was that many people in England had no idea there were loyalist paramilitaries.

Yes! People talk about Brexit, but it was the election with the DUP as kingmakers that blew my mind. Both wondering why an Irish party was involved in their politics, and also assuming ROI was part of the UK. Complete ignorance.

Not to mention the feeling that the majority on here regard the Troubles as the IRA bombing London, without a hint of an idea of what the people of NI went through.

The Educate Together movement is going from strength to strength in ROI. Mostly in middle class, urban areas it has to be said, but gotta start somewhere.

The importance of religion in schools in ROI is reducing a bit anyway. Even the holy communions and so on are being done for ‘cultural’ rather than any kind of religious reasons.

It seems to be much slower in NI. Some of the religious schools there are truly excellent educationally, so that doesn’t help ET/mixed schools get a foothold.

I agree it would help. I can’t see much change afoot in NI though.

Not to mention the feeling that the majority on here regard the Troubles as the IRA bombing London, without a hint of an idea of what the people of NI went through.

Yes, it shows up on Mn with tiresome regularity -- eg 'I narrowly missed the Baltic Exchange bomb in 1992, therefore you can't tell me anything about the Troubles'.

Agreed entirely on people having no idea who the DUP were, but I think I was more freaked out by the fact that so many people didn't realise that there were 'equivalent' loyalist paramilitaries to the IRA. When asked it might even have been on here, I can't remember what they thought the IRA were doing/who they were fighting, more than one person said 'Oh, I just thought they were drawing attention to their cause by bombing things.'

Not to mention the feeling that the majority on here regard the Troubles as the IRA bombing London, without a hint of an idea of what the people of NI went through.

Or the people of Ireland. There were many murders and attempts at murder carried out by loyalists in the Republic, often with collusion from the british. There were also deaths at the hands of republicans, particularly during botched robberies.

I get that Britain kind of ignores their part in Irish history a lot but how can you not even now the basic geography of your own country?

Welcome to the English state education system. Geography is an afterthought. Politics barely exists. History covers the Tudors and the World Wars over and over and not much else. All but abolish Critical Thinking and lambaste Media Studies (no one needs to know what the papers do to this country!). Keep the state school kids ignorant and lacking in curiosity... Not that that's an excuse not to educate yourself in your free time, of course, but if there's no curiosity, there's not much drive.

Going off on a tangent a bit, but I once spoke to another English woman who didn't know why Australia speaks English. No idea that it was colonised by Britain, or who was there before us, or why it's now predominantly white, she'd just "never thought about it before".

Back on tangent, I find even when people here in England talk about the UK, they often forget about Northern Ireland. Not deliberately "forget", but genuinely forget it exists. It's only since the Brexit referendum that it's become apparent that our government did, too.

I've also come across more than one person who calls Ireland "southern Ireland".

I've also come across more than one person who calls Ireland "southern Ireland".

At least that suggests they know there are two jurisdictions on the island of Ireland.

It seems to be much slower in NI. Some of the religious schools there are truly excellent educationally, so that doesn’t help ET/mixed schools get a foothold.

I think because of the Protestant Vs Catholic/British Vs Ireland situation in NI, both "sides" have stayed more still than either the ROI or Britain has. So you have a situation where they're holding on to what used to be in both countries rather than the reality where both countries have moved on......if that makes sense? Obviously I'm not NI so this is just what it seems like to me looking in

but how can you not even now the basic geography of your own country?
It is shocking and a failing of our schooling. I was never taught this stuff in school. Basic stuff like -
This is what England is, Scotland is etc.
This is what Britain is.
This is what the UK is.
Etc

During the Brexit referendum it was amazing just how many people had no clue (evidently including many MPs) about this stuff. I remember I was talking to someone who was saying we should never had joined the EU and should have just stayed Great Britain, not the United kingdom, just Great Britain. It was clear he didn't have a clue what any of these things actually were or their history.

Or there was the English MP who thought that we were all entitled to Irish passports. Then not's lets forget the then Sec of State Karen Bradley who had only just found out that NI voted on sectarian lines.

but how can you not even now the basic geography of your own country?

A lot of people spent a lot of years and hard work to achieve that. I think we need to take a moment out to thank them for never once giving in. Never once giving up. For their dedication in the face of everything against them (especially reality). It didn't happen overnight.

The ignorance of the average English subject about Ireland is a testament to what can be achieved when we all work together.

there was the English MP who thought that we were all entitled to Irish passports.
I wish!

The ignorance of the average English subject about Ireland is a testament to what can be achieved when we all work together.

@AryaStarkWolf - I think because of the Protestant Vs Catholic/British Vs Ireland situation in NI, both "sides" have stayed more still than either the ROI or Britain has. So you have a situation where they're holding on to what used to be in both countries rather than the reality where both countries have moved on......if that makes sense?

I think you're right. Except it's not catholic vs protestant per se. It just happens to be that the majority of unionists are protestant and the majority of nationalists are catholic. This is due to historical reasons. The protestants are mainly descendants of the planters whilst the catholics are mainly descendants of the indigenous Irish. You can tell an awful lot about the background of people in NI by their name.

Some of our most famous rebel leaders were protestant. Wolfe Tone, Parnell, Robert Emmett, Sam Maguire amongst others were all protestant.

The ignorance of the average English subject about Ireland is a testament to what can be achieved when we all work together.

LaurieMarlow

The ignorance of the average English subject about Ireland is a testament to what can be achieved when we all work together.

Why the grin ? I am serious. For too long, the intellectually challenged have been made to feel inferior just because they don't know shit. It's time we reminded so called "clever people" who is in the majority here - because it most certainly isn't them.

Yes, yes, yes, it's all very well bigging yourselves up about "moon missions" and "medical science" and all that gobblydygook. But really those are just silly flash in the pans compared to the real story. The story of entire swathes of populations that - despite access to knowledge, learning and the incredible advances in the ability of truth and understanding to spread - have managed to collectively reverse the advance of humanity towards peace and harmony.

Once again, let's hear it for the vocal and ignorant majority. Because we would never have got here without them ...

You can tell an awful lot about the background of people in NI by their name.

My housemate (from Ballycastle) could tell a lot from their accents - protestant or catholic.

LaurieMarlow
I don’t think I’ve heard an Irish person express an interest in rejoining the U.K. (or even joining the Commonwealth) in my life.

Well, there is this: rcsireland.org/

My housemate (from Ballycastle) could tell a lot from their accents - protestant or catholic.

The name weeds out the undesirable job applicants initially. If you make a mistake, the accent at the interview will make sure you don't hire the wrong one.

Well, there is this: rcsireland.org/

Given that one of their main aims is Serve as a visible link to the Commonwealth for those living in Ireland who originate from Commonwealth countries I suspect most of them aren't Irish. so even though one of their aims is Support Ireland’s re-entry into the Commonwealth, should this be the wish of the Irish people., I don't really see it as an Irish aim.

I don’t think the existence of that organisation does anything to suggest that Irish people want to join the CW.

Though I admit to being confused about its aims and who’s behind it.

The name weeds out the undesirable job applicants initially. If you make a mistake, the accent at the interview will make sure you don't hire the wrong one

I had to do some work for a company that had offices in NI. The recruitment process was much more detailed than for mainland Britain. There were probably 8 of us in the team of 100 that knew why.

I think you're right. Except it's not catholic vs protestant per se. It just happens to be that the majority of unionists are protestant and the majority of nationalists are catholic. This is due to historical reasons.The protestants are mainly descendants of the planters whilst the catholics are mainly descendants of the indigenous Irish. You can tell an awful lot about the background of people in NI by their name.

Oh yeah I get that totally, it also annoys me when people say that "the troubles" was a religious conflict when it really wasn't anything to do with religion. I mentioned the religions in my post as more of a identifier of the groups I suppose

It's been removed from later versions , but P.J. O'Rourkes article on visiting Ireland in the 80s is a fascinating read ("Holidays in Hell"). He visits both loyalists and republicans (and the British Army) and comes away noting that they all felt "this is an acceptable level of violence" ...

It's been removed from later versions hmm, but P.J. O'Rourkes article on visiting Ireland in the 80s is a fascinating read ("Holidays in Hell").

Really? I wonder why it's been removed as it was a great article. I particularly liked his observation on the effectiveness of the soldiers' camouflage gear when they appeared invisible to the local nationalist women, who basically pretended they couldn't see them.

I wonder why it's been removed as it was a great article.

Dunno. I noticed on the Amazon reviews. I have a dead-tree copy from the 80s. (I think all the articles originally appeared in "Rolling Stone").

"Everyone in Ireland is descended from a King ..."