Education should be a private good

[StaffAssociationRepresentative]

Given the high levels of dissatisfaction with regards education should we not now make it a private good? The government should only provide education for free for those who are below the poverty level and then provide a sliding scale of support in a manner similar to child support. This will then give some schools the chance to charge more to ensure that any provision can be properly funded.

This will lead to happier schools, happier staff, happier pupils and a happier Mumsnet. Parents will therefore be free to buy provision that they want.

YABU - let education continue as it is
YANBU - fully privatise and let parents decide

So what happens to children whose parents are above the poverty line, but for whatever reason can't or won't pay? Are those children to be denied an education because their parents have made poor choices?

Of course teachers would have to accept that once people are paying for teaching then it has to be delivered. Hence why all my children are getting proper online teaching for their private dance/instrument/drama lessons and have been since about 1 week into lockdown

Healthcare too, OP?

I do think education could benefit from being run more along commercial lines but no, absolutely not at cost to the end user.

The best thing you can invest in as a country is the next generation. Education needs to have more government funding, not less.

No. The state system covers 93%(?) of pupils. It ensures a level(ish) foundation for all, paid for from taxes.

Just because people are arguing re the methods/timing of reopening schools doesn't mean the current system is broken.

And I would argue with the 'high level of dissatisfaction' you stated. At the moment, in the middle of a pandemic there may be dissatisfaction from a vocal group. That doesn't mean there is general dissatisfaction.

My DD's state comp is great, I have a lot of faith in it.

Wasn’t that the thinking behind academies?

For the purposes of your question could you expand upon the SEN provision in this system? For both those with and without LD?

No means tested system ever gets everyone who needs it. Private is only 'better' because it is properly funded. Fund state education fully as it is everyone's right.

But the issue we have is that are lot are not happy with it so maybe time to change

@XDownwiththissortofthingX Are you a teacher? If so I hope my thick child never has to meet you

What a disgusting way to talk.

@changeagainandagain I agree. Utterly disgusting way to talk.

Are those children to be denied an education because their parents have made poor choices?

That's a bit of a nasty generalisation. We haven't made any poor choices. We still can't afford thousands of pounds a term for private education.

@TeenPlusTwenties no it is just not coronavirus issues there have been plenty of issues raised before then.

I think maybe a more mixed market economy with the the government fully funding those below the poverty line with a sliding scale up to say earnings up to £65k. The government can the give schools an amount to cover basics. They can then charge parents £20 per day plus whatever depending upon supply and demand. Parents have to supply pens, textbooks etc

The main proviso is that children are in an educational setting for 180 days a year. Those who then want more or wrap around care then pay for it.

So everyone is happy

That's not how it works. You can't just choose whether something is a public or private good. Education IS a public good, no matter who pays for it, because it benefits us all to live in a society where everyone else gets education. In the same way, health care is a public good: it's better for us all if everyone else gets access to it.

Now, you can have an argument about whether or not education should be state-funded, but that is a different question. It'll still be a public good.

Considering the child support system is an absolute shit show, I really wouldn't be using it as a framework model for other systems.
This idea is absolutely batshit

the issue we have is that are lot are not happy with it so maybe time to change

You can at the moment. If you are not happy with your state school, you can change to a different one. Or pay for a private one. Or home educate.

It is actually international law that primary education should be compulsory and free of charge.

93% of population make poor choices. Really?

I think it could be time for a shake up in education. It would be amazing if it were properly funded and the people that actually know about education allowed to make decisions about curriculum and funding. It could be an amazing opportunity to ditch some of the rubbish in the curriculum and all the rote learning and really tailor a good, funded curriculum that works to teachers strengths. If teachers' load was lessened , like Ireland, and they were given more respect.

Im not sure this is what Op was thinking.

I couldn't think of anything worse for our education system! All children have a right to a fair and fully funded eduction. This would just make the divide between well off parents and the poorer families wider.

93% of population make poor choices in fairness I don't think that is what the pp meant. I think they meant if someone was obliged to pay, I dunno, £10 a day for a state education, earned enough money (according to the means testing) to allow them to pay but instead chose to spend their money on something else. In that case the child would suffer for the adult's poor choices.

No. Completely backwards, regressive and short sighted.

Everyone in the nation benefits from an educated population, and is the single most significant thing you can do to level our the playing field between rich and poor.

Surely but introducing a more private enterprise element to schools that will help with wrap care and the holiday issues that people struggle to overcome.

So schools become more businesslike

We already have a scenario where pupils and parents are defined as consumers of a service. That's been the case for years.

The teachers who are in many people's opinion so unsatisfactory have little power or autonomy anyway.

That's a bit of a nasty generalisation. We haven't made any poor choices. We still can't afford thousands of pounds a term for private education.

That wasn't how I meant it, @ilkboo. I think you have taken my point as though it related to private education vs state in the current system, rather than the OP's proposal.

The OP suggested a threshold below which education would be free. My comment was made on the assumption the threshold would be reasonable and the fees above that would generally be affordable (in the OP's proposed new scheme, these would not necessarily be on a par with private education costs today).

My point was that some people who could afford the fees, might still prefer to spend the money on something non-essential and children of those people would lose out.