Education should be a private good

[StaffAssociationRepresentative]

Given the high levels of dissatisfaction with regards education should we not now make it a private good? The government should only provide education for free for those who are below the poverty level and then provide a sliding scale of support in a manner similar to child support. This will then give some schools the chance to charge more to ensure that any provision can be properly funded.

This will lead to happier schools, happier staff, happier pupils and a happier Mumsnet. Parents will therefore be free to buy provision that they want.

YABU - let education continue as it is
YANBU - fully privatise and let parents decide

SEN would depend upon the need - some needs would have to be fully funded

@ABucketOfShells
As a main benefit, I expect that there should emerge a spectrum of different "in-between" education options. At the moment in the UK there seem to be two extremes - either a free for all state school, or a very expensive independent school, unaffordable for the absolute majority of the population.
Think of what your typical primary school could achieve, if they were allowed to charge, say, £3K / year per pupil to top up the government funding.

Nope it would lead to a massive class divide with children unable to cope with all walks of life what a terrible idea .... I think I’ve heard it all now with this thread .

This will then give some schools the chance to charge more to ensure that any provision can be properly funded. It would? You mean the school could just charge more and those poorer parents would still be fully funded by the government?

Or do you mean in that case the poorer kids can leave and go elsewhere?

Better still, poor children shouldn't have access to education at all if parents cant pay or don't care enough to pay why should Ihave to subsidise them? All schools should be privately funded, same with healthcare and welfare payments. It's not my fault you're poor or sick so I shouldn't have to pay.

YABU how about instead of investing in HS2 or additional runways that will lead to more environmental blight or the various vanity projects that Boris Johnson et al are so fond of promoting - anyone remember the garden bridge? - we take that money and invest it in public services such as education!

yes companies such as google and amazon need to pay their fair share, as does everyone who is not PAYE.

My husband is self employed. He declares everything and pays tax. It winds me up that people think self employed have wads of cash under the mattress or in off shore accounts.

I'm a retired headteacher (was first a head in 1996). Heads have had delegated budgets since the first half of the 90s and in my first year in the job (the final year of prolonged Tory government), my budget was laughable - because Tory governments starve schools of funding.

When Labour came in, we enjoyed decent funding and were able to provide staffing and resources that the children's education required.

I've been hearing these 'voucher' ideas (Tories have been proposing this 'give all parents a voucher for £5K to spend in the school of their choice' for many years, by the way - why do you suppose that might be?), privatisation, etc all my adult life.

The simple fact is that children should not be subjected to "market forces", politically-driven privatisation ideology or anything that means the 'weakest' are at the mercy of capitalism even more than they are already.

A measure of a civilised society is how much taxpayers are willing to pay for the good of all. A well-funded education system, free to access by any child regardless of his/her parents' income, is vital.

Yes, OP - we've stopped funding education adequately. It stopped being funded adequately in 2010. We need to look at why that was...

SEN is barely funded now, how would it be fully funded under your system?

KenDodd if your employer doesn't survive this you could be in for a rude awakening.

yes companies such as google and amazon need to pay their fair share,

Well in that case people shouldn't vote for a government willing to vigorously defend tax avoidance.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/uk-corporate-tax-avoidance-havens-justice-network-dodging-a8933661.html?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR3OIBPfzSJSIQv0-m9VD6KT57fjeboMc0jispjslQnx2IAIB5uPIP9pKvs

A well-funded education system, free to access by any child regardless of his/her parents' income This!

What a load of rubbish.

My children attended the most wonderful primary school and secondary comprehensive and have gone on to university, taken part in a wide range of activities and sports and are accomplished young people (so far, I know they've yet to finish and get their careers off the ground) and so are most of their friends.

There is nothing wrong with state schools which considering their funding do much more than you can imagine with so little resources and with a wide intake of youngsters and their associated families/carers. £ for £ they do amazingly but they need more money so class sizes are smaller ... and the children, especially those from families with difficulties can have more support, for example, a healthy meal after school and homework clubs ... summer schools and so on.

VickyEadieofThigh

Imo we get the education system and healthcare we vote for, it's down to us as voters what we want for children in the country and it turns out it's a system starved of funding. Our vote, our choice.

You get what you pay for. My eldest child is at an independant school. Tutor meeting each day, work set for 6 subjects per day and online lessons for 2 subjects each day. He can email any teacher between 8-5 and they will get back to him.

Younger 2 at a state school. Nothing. DS2's, teacher provided a link to the online government back school resource and set a few tasks on mathletics.

If the gap wasn't wide enough before it certainly is now. At DS1's school they know that the parents, are paying so they must deliver. At the state school it seems like there is no expectation in the same way. If all parents were paying something there would be chabges, there would have to be because the parents would grow to demand and expect it.

Says me in a super safe parliamentary seat where my vote makes no difference. The point still stands though.

@VickyEadieofThigh
I didn't know it was an old idea, I am a relative newcomer to the UK and did not really follow Tory policies in 1996, not even to mention that I was in primary school back then.
In my case, I would probably spend my hypothetical 2 x £5K on homeschooling my two. Once I started looking deeper into it, I was quite unpleasantly surprised how low academic demands can be in British schools.

@wannakisstheteacher
Yes, this. After being able to compare the lockdown education experience of my friends who privately educate and mine in a state school, there is not even a gap, but an abyss.

Weren't schools supposed to be run as a business by making them into academies? That hasn't worked out so well as there are massive discrepancies in school provision.

I can't believe that you think this is actually a workable solution, it would case social divisions that haven't been seen since Victorian times. Are you Boris?

You're whole premise makes me shudder.

@firstmentat I think that sort of happens unofficially anyway, DS is due to start at a 'leafy' primary school, there's a very active PTA (we live next door so know they have a big summer fete and Christmas market), and lots of educated parents that can say come in to talk to the DC about their jobs or listen to them read etc.

I think education is, and should remain, a public good though. There's already lots of inequality between schools, society won't benefit from more imo.

But how would the cut off be decided anyway? There’s a lot of people out there like me that earn marginally too much for UC support but can barely makes ends meet on a single wage. Would I have to decide between having my son educated vs eating?

As I said we need to fund education properly. At the moment it is not funded properly and so we all need to pay up.

The current system is not working

The old direct grant system worked. It was means-tested.
It will come as a surprise to many on here that funding per pupil per head was higher at local authority secondary than at direct grant fee-paying schools.

I can remember having an 'A' level maths text book (when we were all in SI units) with units of foot poundals. Apparently when you're finding the tension in the couple between an engine and its train it doesn't matter.