To convert our loft when we have elderly neighbours

[Corruptedtongue]

We bought a 2 bed semi detached bungalow about a year ago - with a view to converting the loft space. About a third of the bungalows along our road have already been converted. The other interested buyer was a property developer. We have 2 children, our one year old is still sleeping in the bedroom with us, and we really need the extra space. We have had plans drawn up and passed by the council. We need a party wall agreement and our neighbours have instructed a surveyor. They’ve asked us to change our plans twice, which we’ve done - and now need to resubmit to planning. We are on good terms with them, but I know they are concerned. It’s obviously going to be hellish for them when we have the work done. They have already extended their property at the back, but now into their roof space. I’d love to hear your thoughts? Thanks!

We already have planning permission, but now need to resubmit to meet neighbours requests.

Unfortunately, it is exactly like a blank cheque. All surveyors working for the neighbours (Adjoining Owners) are paid by the hour. However, fees should still be 'reasonable' under the Act. In my experience, if you are in London, you are looking at £1100 - £1500 for their surveyor. The average Award takes 6-8 hours and average hourly rates are anything from £120.00 - £250.00. Their surveyor will likely be on the higher end if they have recieved unsolicited letters from unscrupulous surveyors touting for business, off the back of the approved planning application lists.

A Third Surveyor is appointed but only used if both surveyors cannot agree on a way forward. The Third Surveyor can split his fees between both parties, so it's a risk that adjoining owners surveyors often do not like to take because they will have already assured your neighbours that they wont have any fees to pay, to get them to sign their Appointment Letter. For works such as yours, the Third Surveyor isnt often used, it is more common on complex projects such as new basements etc.

It really is a terrible system and quite stressful for the Building Owners (the ones carrying out the works).

Another thing to note is that it is often preferable to take the dormer to the boundary line to enable them or the next owners to build their own dormer right up against it. If you set it back, it is difficult for them to do one in the future as there is no workable space for their Contractor to finish off the side cheek of their dormer and weatherproof (unless they move it back substantially).

Party Wall Awards can take some time, so get the process started now (you have 12 months to start, but not complete the works once it is served). It adds to the stress when you have a contractor desperate to start and their party wall surveyor is dragging his heels.

Personally, I'd just swallow the costs of their surveyor and not put in an amended planning application. If you've got permission granted its unreasonable of them to use the appointment of a surveyor to blackmail you with!

I don’t understand why their extension makes it difficult for you to extend. Can your surveyor look into that out for you? Their extension doesn’t sound legal and could be devaluing your property.

@Twotinydictators that’s excellent advice - thank you. I didn’t realise that a third surveyors fees would be split - I’ll look into that. I don’t think they have any intention of converting their roof space - or are concerned how it would impact the future owners of their property. They are concerned about access to the chimney and their satellite dish strap/damp ( dormer is below and won’t impact). Their extension has a lip/fence and we can’t build up against it. Lip drips water onto our side.

When I get work done a buy a bunch of flowers as a pre emotive apology.
I also did an extension which the neighbours got fussy about the party wall and got their own surveyor in. He was a mate but couldn't argue the facts - the guys roof was not in great shape to start with. But he made sure to charge me top whack for his services and it ended up adding over a £1000 to my costs. But I got what I wanted. Don't change your plans if it means a compromise - a surveyor is just there to protect their interests (in terms of any possible damage to their property), not to refuse you permission to do anything.

Why buy a bungalow and then make it a house? There’s a shortage of bungalows! Why not just buy a house?

Flowers have already been taken around. It’s will still be a bungalow - and it’s original downstairs won’t change much - and I’ll be 60 in 12 years time, so it will be great for my retirement.

I had my second child at age 46.

OP just be mindful that at the moment, we are mostly stuck in our homes so there is no getting away from the building noise. That said, you have been very accommodating so far, more than most neighbours would be.

The compromise is to avoid paying for 3 surveyors.

And no - we would start works next year.

I vote push on. It sounds like you have compromised more than enough already. They are going to have to suck if up, it is your house after all. I’m always confused when people think it’s great for them to do something but the next person isn’t “allowed”

Moving house was an interesting suggestion. Was it directed at OP or the neighbours?

Do it

@Corruptedtongue It is very unlikely that the two surveyors would need to refer to the Third Surveyor. You will only need to pay the two surveyors fees.

If (big if) for some reason the two surveyors cannot agree, they can go to the Third Surveyor for resolution. But if the Third Surveyor ruled in your surveyors favour, he could say that your neighbours have to pay the fees for the referral, or it could be split, or you could have to pay it all. It entirely depends on the situation. I can think of only two instances in the last 500 or so projects where the Third Surveyor was called on. Both of those were Basement projects, not loft conversions, which are relatively minor in comparison.

Good luck with it all, at some point it'll be built and you'll have a fantastic new space in your house and all this stress will be behind you!

Thank you @twotinydictators. I’ve fed all that info back to DP! I’m really grateful.