To think school should offer more?

[supermanisdead]

My DD is yr8 at a large comp. she is set roughly 2-3 hours of work a day online which she does.

For the first 5 weeks there was zero feedback given until I messaged the head who said they were implementing it that day. Since then feedback has been very sporadic.

There have been no Zoom or google classroom lessons. I'm concerned about the lack of face to face teaching and formative feedback. She's had one phone call from her tutor.

I'm interested to know what other schools are providing to see if it's comparable.

A bit of background - I'm an FE lecturer and have to call my learners once a week and provide Almost all lessons in a Zoom format. I can't understand why secondary schools aren't offering the same?!

So what the OP is saying is she as recognised that a high percentage of students will be disadvantaged if a large portion of lessons go on line, but as it doesn't disadvantage her/his children they don't care.

“Carrying out the due diligence and risk assessments are a legislative requirement for personal data being used in this way. Some educational institutions may have gone ahead without doing these things but I don't see how they came to the conclusion to use certain software and that it was safe, when the software companies themselves have referred to their products being lacking on this front and have only very recently changed this!“

To be honest, this just sounds like more whataboutery.

Mine are in 3 different independent schools. They all use Google Classroom in normal times for a good proportion of homework, so no “risk assessments” needed. We had various emails weeks before lockdown to say that we should rest assured that they were working hard on coherent strategies to provide the full curriculum online in the event that schools might have to close. They were ready from day 1 of lockdown. No issues whatsoever. These teachers have children and occasional WiFi issues the same as anyone else, but there is no option to say “no can do.” It’s about forward-planning and organisation.

Two of these schools are very selective independents. One is smaller and less academic on average and my DD is that school is dyslexic. The SEN has been in touch twice to ask me how she is accessing the lessons. They have a school counsellor available online that they can contact or book a session with if they feel they need to.

One school has reduced fees by 20%, one by 15% and one not at all.

The school that has reduced the fees by 20% also has possibly the highest proportion of DC on bursaries if any London independent (over 20%). They are open for children of keyworkers too as many students have both parents working in a medical field.

Grasspigeons
Fees are not the point, but one school is one of the lowest in the country and one middling.
Class sizes are16-20 to one teacher.
One small and one large cohort.
One non selective and some supported children, one selective but mildly so not highly academic,no deaf or blind children.
Lots of staff still on site for key workers children.
Cohort is mixed in one, some with learning difficulties, other more mainstream and no issues.
Financially smaller school has lots on full bursaries, bigger about 20-25% as an estimate.
Not sure how many have access to a tablet, or housing arrangements.
I understand schools in very deprived areas will have a MUCH harder time getting all children to access work, but surely if 50 or 60 % can to begin with, that makes it worth it?
then surely that can be increased by addressing problems individually.

I am trying hard to be fair, as l know it is not a level playing field, BUT the biggest difference between those schools who are providing a full days effective education and those who are not is this attitude.
all the reasons why it cannot be done rather than lets give it a really concerted effort and work together to deliver the best we can given all the challenges. Even if it is not perfect and doesn't work for all children many would benefit.

Complying with data protection law is not 'whataboutery' and you sound very naive with your full embrace of these technologies without a passing thought for the motivations of these companies.

The above was in response to monkeycats last post.

I 100% agree with you OP, I wish you had enabled the vote!

I have a DC in Year 10 - in next year's GCSEs there is going to be a huge chasm between the results of private schools (full timetable of lessons online, feedback, marking of work) and state.

It was OK in the first few weeks when it was just keeping a bit of homework going while they were off. But now they're not going to be back till September, secondary schools really need to up their game.

I don't think the government realise how much variation there is in provision.

My DD is in Y4and we are given a pdf once a week of work for them to do, which all requires constant parental input and supervision. I know her teacher has no caring responsibilities.
Her Brownie group are now meeting online. We signed a form to agree to sign up to this. There is no sensible reason why the school could not be teaching online.
I know from friends that private schools are teaching this age group online and minimal parental input is needed.
I still haven't seen any believable reason why teaching online is unsafe. "Safeguarding" is too vague. If safeguarding is a problem then why is it ok for private schools and Brownies?

I would not want my children to be taught in this way. On a screen all day is not my idea of an education, it is detrimental to imagination and creativity and I'm not sure how much is being learnt with such a teacher centric approach.

I'm so angry about this that I am seriously wondering if I can find the money to move DD to private school as her state school are taking the piss so much. She has been off school a lot due to ill health and all we got was threats that they would call in the EWO, nor the school is shut and they don't care buttons that she is missing out.

That's why I asked what year your DC is in @Goldenbear
I'm assuming it's not Year 10

Year 8 and 4 but why is it relevant?

Because you might not feel the same about online lessons if your child was due to sit GCSEs next year

Chiara - me too. Beyond angry with the situation

25-30% of our cohort and rising is pupil premium ... access to online learning is not easily accessible for a lot of these students.

Google Classroom is standard in many schools Golden - nothing sinister about it. It doesn’t need to be used for face-to-face teaching. It just means the teachers can send slides or videos through and a set of tasks related to these which they complete online in the lesson time and submit via this system at the end of the lesson. Then there’s a school version of a FaceTime or a secure school class chat, so they can chat / see to their friends while completing the tasks and support each other and the teacher will answer any questions too. It makes teacher’s lives easier because all the work is in one place and so is the communication. They all get their password and log in in the first week of Year 7 to the secure school site. Even in primary school, they had i-pads from about Year 4 and were used to completing homework and submitting it in this way. It’s something that’s used very widely these days, all across the world. They have very little paper homework, to be honest.

I do agree that they are looking at screens more than usual, yes. They realise this is not ideal. Some science lessons they are put in groups to do practicals - like my one who is in Year 7 the other day, was doing something about rates of diffusion using peppermint teabags in different temperatures of water. They were all communicating and collating their results on the class chat. Then they just took a photo of the results chart they compiled and the method, etc. Another day they made bread and followed the instructions and they all took a photo at the end so they could see all the different breads they made. The PE teacher comes on at 9am some mornings and they all have to wear their PE kit and do something like Zumba. I’m not sure what system it is, but they can see their friends on other windows On the IPad and she enjoys that.

Is it not the case here that what parents would really like, is some sort of indication of what education will be like in the short to medium term, both for children who start to go back in to school, and those staying at home.

In the OP I don't think she said, why aren't teachers doing more, rather schools? Schools are not above criticism, and it is obvious even on this thread that the education they are providing varies widely. Parents need to be able to discuss this.

Yes, teachers are sensitive at the moment and some people have called teachers lazy etc but I don't think that is what the OP was getting at at all.

Its been weeks now, and theres talk of getting back to some sort of normal in a lot of sectors.
We're talking about reopening many services in my place of work, many people are considering returning to work. Its looking like this next phase of gradual return to 'normal' could be 12 to 18 months.
What can parents of children who are continuing to be educated whilst at home expect?
I don't know that anyone here has the answer to that but its still good to discuss it with other parents in similar situations.
I certainly can't continue to do my job from home and do a sufficient job of educating my children. If I could I'd have been doing that all along!
We hear plenty of teachers say they are still at work and providing education to their class, but the output is clearly so variable that this is a valid point to discuss. Not as a criticism of individual teachers involved, but as a question of school policy or direction from government.
This subject comes up time and again as rightly pointed out, because parents are concerned.
But the people who can answer it aren't on mumsnet. Teachers are, who are pretty much doing as they've been asked by their bosses.

It's not that it is 'sinister' but we should be asking questions about data collection that has privacy implications. I think in the long run such a technocratic approach to the curriculum will have implications for the 'Arts' - it all feels a bit soulless. I suppose it depends on what you think counts as an education.

Well, I see your point that it’s more soulless working online than in a school, but for the moment, it is what it is. As for the arts, my younger ones would be set an art task, eg. yesterday one was doing a line drawing of a crumpled packet if crisps, then they take a photo and just submit it at the end of the session. So a normal art session really. They’re also growing seedlings. My Year 10 one who does GCSE textiles is getting on with it as normal and getting feedback as she goes. My eldest one who is a singer, has online singing lessons with his teacher - it’s not perfect obviously, but better than nothing. I have a Year 10 and a Year 12. The Year 12 had online exams with the camera enabled and these go towards his predicted grades for uni. They were revising all Easter. If schools had reopened for Year 12s after half-term, they would have had a formal exam week, but they were told to take the online exams seriously as this may well be all they’re able to do. By the summer, they need to know which unis they can realistically apply to. One if his A-levels is Spanish and he still gets his one-hour speaking session every week, but now there’s another student from his class joining in too as teachers can’t be one-to-one. The only exception to this is they’re all scheduled to have an individual session with the uni advisor and also the head of dept re- the subject they’re thinking of as a degree.

Completely agree OP

Less than 2 hours a day here from a so-called great state secondary. I hear of these online zoom classes with some envy. We'd just appreciate getting work to do here.

I have a Dd in private and am very impressed by the offering and a DS in state (less so) I really think there are opportunities to learn from the private sector on this,in terms of how we can equip all pupils to learn remotely. My DD has an old PC considered on its last legs until we installed Linux;things don’t have to be state of the art.
My DD’s 11+ tutoring has gone online (zoom) and it’s fantastic. 2 hours a week plus supplementary notes; she works through them during the week. Low cost and very effective. Positive attitude from all around.

Interested to hear Goldenbears solution to how children should be educated in these times if you disapprove of screens and “teacher centric” education 🙄

Dd is year 7 in a state school. They’ve been phenomenal. Dd is following her standard full timetable with work set on google classroom (same as normal homework) and she submits it through there and receives feedback. During class time the teachers respond to messages/questions. They are doing 2-3 google meets lessons a week (seeing her class mates has made a massive difference to DD’s mood). She also has a 30 minute tutor time on google meets weekly with her class - it’s supposed to be fun, social, pastoral. They understand other dc may be in the house but ask that they are not in their bedroom. Lots of individual feedback and also more general video clips from the staff (some of them fun/silly dancing). Head of year called every family to see how we were and ask us to let them know via the tutor if we had any concerns - school or non school related. dd got a personal video from the head as she received a principal’s commendation - which I’m so proud of her for as dh is working full on from home and I’m hardly around as I work in the local hospital.

Her school had mixed reviews and I was concerned but I genuinely think they’re doing an amazing job. Other dc’s primary is less impressive - bare minimum and 0 feedback.

I don’t disapprove of screens but like I said I will direct my children to use text books or will print the work off as my eldest was finding it easier to use hard copies of worksheets. He has no taught lessons via video conferencing software so ‘screens’ are not a major problem. My youngest is 8 and doesn’t use screens for her work other than an occasional maths app but again we don’t have to use it for her to understand these concepts. They are both having music lessons online but that’s because they get a lot of pleasure from their instruments.

I agree with you in that there is not much you can do about the teacher centric approach, If you want to have an online school.

I have 2 at the same school and they get work set daily, its brilliant the amount of work they get and how structured and varied it is.

They log in to websites and do work and then also sheets or writing in their books, this is all uploaded on to their online journals where they teachers mark and give feedback etc..

The younger ones teacher is amazing, gives detailed feedback on everything and keeps in contact via messages to see how we are. If she hasn't heard from us she will send a message to check everything is ok and if we need anything. My eldest is struggling and she is helping with that too.

My eldests teacher does not reply or give any feedback to any work at all, last week I didn't even bother uploading anything as he asked me why his brothers teacher comments on his work but his teacher doesn't on his. (Its an app he has access to so can see)
As far as I'm concerned she doesn't know whether we've fallen off the face of the earth and she doesn't care either way.

If both teachers didn't give feedback I wouldn't think anything of it but the fact that one finds the time every day without fail even when she is on the rota to be in school then I know that the year 4 teacher is slacking here.

No doubt people will say I'm teacher bashing and dish the flowers out but I think this a fair observation and I am rightly a bit miffed at this.
She doesn't reply to messages either, got no reply to a query on some work set.