To think school should offer more?

[supermanisdead]

My DD is yr8 at a large comp. she is set roughly 2-3 hours of work a day online which she does.

For the first 5 weeks there was zero feedback given until I messaged the head who said they were implementing it that day. Since then feedback has been very sporadic.

There have been no Zoom or google classroom lessons. I'm concerned about the lack of face to face teaching and formative feedback. She's had one phone call from her tutor.

I'm interested to know what other schools are providing to see if it's comparable.

A bit of background - I'm an FE lecturer and have to call my learners once a week and provide Almost all lessons in a Zoom format. I can't understand why secondary schools aren't offering the same?!

Honestly. These threads are constant because it is important and ongoing. Some schools have stepped up, some haven't for whatever reason.

As for the 'why don't parents just sort it'... Maybe they would with guidance from schools as to what was needed. And also because many are still working full time, expecting the teachers who are also apparently working full time providing an education to their children to do it.

Ok. I'm a teacher. We are currently working by sending narrated PowerPoints to pupils. With one class I've had work from 6 pupils over the last 4 weeks . I have to presume a lot of them can't access the work so doubt they would be able to use zoom. ( heads of year are in the process of contacting them - I'm responsible for contacting my year 9 form). I have one brand new laptop with a camera and an old one without one. So if my daughter's school chose to use zoom and mine did who gets to use it? Plus I had a meeting by zoom yesterday and my broadband couldn't cope and I lost contact for a while. It isn't as easy as people make out.

I don't see how it's teacher bashing to feel that some children have been cut adrift from a useful learning environment and it's worrying when others have access to an immersive and responsive online schooling schedule.

I do think teachers are having a hard time at the moment but I don't see why parents should pretend that they are not anxious about their children pulling the short straw.

I am glad (wrong word!) other peoples are picking up and concerned about the gap widening. The gap was already there but this is just making it wider.

You can't blame the independent sector for not trying to help. When schools like Eton are offering state schools classes and those state schools are not registering "because it wouldn't be fair on everybody", it's making it wider!

I teach in a sixth form college. I’m not doing zoom lessons for a variety of reasons - one being that I’m not all that convinced they’re very effective, another that I have two primary aged children at home with me and it’s hard to get the quiet time to do anything like that.

I’ve also taught secondary and I know that my job - which is still pretty stressful right now - is so much easier than that of my secondary colleagues. I don’t envy them at all. The CAGs for GCSEs alone must be a major amount of workload. Luckily we have small cohorts and relatively few CAGs to do but they have taken a significant amount of time.

I’m also very glad my children aren’t supposed to attend live lessons. I’m on my own laptop, bought by myself five years ago and it’s creaking. They’re sharing a chrome book I borrowed from work which is ok for the odd Google Doc and looking up pictures of dolphins etc but terrible for anything more demanding.

Then why not end the op with 'what are other schools doing?' Not why aren't secondary schools doing this

Given the title was “school” singular, and the OP clearly referenced her own DD’s school I think it’s reasonable to assume her ire is directed at one educational establishment.

It is so easy not to open threads you feel might upset you! I can’t understand why, if you feel MN is “teacher bashing” at the moment, you would open a thread about schools and then complain you don’t like what you read. Self-preservation is a valuable tool!

@supermanisdead

It is but I’ve come across at lot of shit in FE teaching and courses. Wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.

Love all the private school parents commenting - would hope your getting a full day you’re paying enough for it.

Locally from the parents I know and teachers the schools are focused on the key years 9, 10 & 12 along side the key worker children in school. And seem to be doing an excellent job.

I can’t understand why, if you feel MN is “teacher bashing” at the moment, you would open a thread about schools and then complain you don’t like what you read. Self-preservation is a valuable tool!

I'm not a teacher so self preservation has nothing to do with it.

Teachers set too much work, teachers aren't setting enough worry, the work is too easy/difficult/marked too quickly/not marked quickly enough, not enough/too many live lessons....

Read any of the threads and you'll find out it is impossible to make everyone happy as each home has different needs.

I ask my secondary age pupils each week about what THEY need (they're worried about their futures too). They hate live whole class lessons. Ask your child before contacting the school.

Oh, and in amongst learning how to work in this whole new way, develop the skills and materials needed to do it and worrying about meeting the needs of your children, many of us have our own children to home school too.

That feels better .

I’m not a teacher so self preservation has nothing to do with it

It was a generic musing, rather than directed at only you. That’s not how MN works

@softjellycell

I apologise, I should have ended it as you said. It was my assumption based on what friends at other schools have said (and based on the furore I seem to have caused on here) that most secondaries were the same. It's great that yours are more proactive.

@recededpronunciation that sounds brilliant, I'd be thrilled with that.

Our school is sending fortnightly links to Twinkl/Oak lessons. Small number of certificates for excellent work sent in to teachers, which rewards the kids with the best resources and parental support. No proactive contact at all. In fact the Head said they decided not to do that in case the staff came across any issues at the child's home. So essentially abandoning those kids in a 'if we don't know we don't have to deal with it' kind of approach.

I'm sorry if people think that's 'teacher bashing' but the lack of engagement from the school is one of the most disappointing elements of this.

@lovelyupnorth

I've come across shit teaching in every sector.

I don't make daft assumptions that everyone in that sector must therefore be unskilled.

I work with 16/17 year olds. FE is mainly 16-18. So I do think I have an understanding

No you don't.

Sorry OP it's totally different. I started in FE and then moved to schools.

There is a LOT parents can do to add to their child's learning, things schools can't always do like learning to cook a proper meal, or to research someething a child is really interested n but doesn't get much spoace in school eg a particular period of history, or local history.

Have them plan a holidaya nd tell you why they have picked the place, places to go and the prices.

Reading - you can never read too much, the amazon app works on phones and computers if you don't have a kindle and all the 'classics' are free.

Go for a walk and try to identify the animals / birds you see.

My kids are private and they have a full day of prerecorded lessons/live lessons/ work books sent home/live assembled and Mark work. However there is no pressure to complete it all.

Why can’t state schools offer that?

Parents who pay for education are usually invested in their children and their child probably has a device that connects to the internet.

For safeguarding you have to know what is going to be on screen, do you want a parent in the background drinking alcohol? Smoking a spliff? Swearing at the TV?

And that's if there is a computer in the house. Actually not just in the house, there are families who live in one room.

I think these posts need to stop, clearly there are many people who can't understand why schools / teachers are or are not doing stuff. Many teachers had tried to explain but it still gets challenged.

Does the fact that so many people just don't understand and still challenge teachers responses indicate that it's much more involved and complicated than you think it is and you just don't have enough knowledge of the schooling environment to full understand, that it's far to complex to post on mumsnet?
It's very apparent that no matter what explanation you are given you will not be happy. It's nearly every other thread and yes I could scroll past but actually I'm now so sick of it and want to say, stop creating new posts like this, just join the existing posts and at least you can all just whinge together.

I am fed up with teachers blaming parents for not motivating and ‘educating’ our own children. They are being paid their full salary to continue teaching. I am being paid my full salary to do my job, sometimes at home and sometimes in the community. I am busier than I have ever been due to the rise in serious domestic abuse during the lockdown.
The teachers who are being paid, should be teaching, and I am not impressed with the way my children are being taught (and I have addressed with the school). Apparently a lot can’t do their role because of caring responsibilities at home. All of my colleagues with small children have them in school and nursery so they can continue working.
If private schools, FE colleges and many schools in other countries can continue teaching, I am not sure why others schools can’t.

Just responding to your request for comparison -

My yr 7 in a state school is getting work set every day but normally has it done by midday.
It’s generally google classrooms, sometimes there are power points or videos to watch eg the Spanish teacher talking Spanish, but not live interactive. No zoom lessons or anything, call from the tutor every fortnight or so.
She has to hand in work, not sure about feedback but if she hasn’t submitted stuff I get notified.

It’s ok, I’m ok with it. My DH is being annoying because he says our dd is the only he has heard of (from speaking to his colleagues) that isn’t having live online lessons, but literally all his colleagues kids are at private schools,I think generally that’s where the divide is.

Tho a friends DH teaches at my child’s school and I think he is doing some online lessons for first year a levels where

It feels kind of like when people are shouted down on FB or similar when they criticise the government. There's always a vociferous few who say how distasteful it is, how we should be pulling together and supporting them right now.

No, sorry that's not the way it works!

As a parent I'm an advocate for my child and I won't stop questioning whether she is being taught in the best way possible given the circumstances.

Sashh your post is incredibly patronising. What you’ve suggested OP does it what most parents do daily anyway.

And as for safe guarding- most live lessons are done with the camera and mic off and the children can type their responses in. It works very well. Also there are no concerns with safe guarding on a prerecorded message.

And yes there will be children who don’t have access to screens but that doesn’t mean everybody doesn’t. You only need to down load google class room on a smart phone which most parents have and have access to it all.

@Harryrotter

You're going to get annihilated on here.

But I agree with you.

I think the responses on here are a mix of safeguarding concerns/sensitivity due to media attitudes/fear of technology. All of which I get. But none of which should prevent children getting feedback and face to face teaching.

Which is all I am asking for!

Not wishing to get drawn into the teacher bashing debate... but as a separate issue the only thing I would say is that I really feel for the home carers who are on minimum wage and giving hangs on care to people, including those who have the virus. In terms of risk.
And they are very quiet on social media etc. I think it’s really sad as probably many of them are not in unions and not wishing to generalise but it’s possible that a lower proportion will be as articulate on social media etc as making their case.
They’ve also not had the outpouring of public support in quite the same way as nurses, it’s good they are getting mentioned more now but don’t think they’ve had the same free food and gifts for example.

Not to say that teachers shouldn’t speak up where they are worried about risk but just an awareness of that other group, arguably at higher risk who don’t seem to have such a voice.

2-3 hours work a day is a lot of work in a home setting. Its quicker to get through than a class.
My son didnt have a school place last year and LAs provide about 5 hours a week as a maximum gold standard. He actually got about 1 hour week access to an online maths and english programme and we were considerd lucky.

And @Splillinteas

You said what I wanted to say!

I'm a great hands on parent providing a stack of other learning ops for both my kids.

I just want a couple of hours face to face teaching for my 13 year old and some formative feedback.

That's all.

Raise it with YOUR school then. Deal with your individual needs and wishes.

Moaning on here won't solve it, will it?

The fact is that teachers in the independent sector are having to provide the same curriculum (and more) as if they were in school. People are still paying fees (maybe a small discount) so it’s not optional. They can’t say” Sorry WiFi problems,” or “sorry I’ve got young kids.” It would be akin to not showing up at work.

Not all lessons are on Zoom, but some are. If there is a Zoom session, there has to be at least two students on for safeguarding reasons. Students have to register online at 8.30, otherwise they are marked as late. PSHE sessions are provided. They are doing PE sessions - eg Zumba or Yoga in the living room / garden! Even choirs are happening with every student recording a section of a song and then the music teacher puts it all together. There are virtual assemblies at least weekly. The Year 11s who had finished their courses have been going pre- A-level programmes or they’ve uploaded presentations in an area of interest which younger pupils can watch. End of year exams have happened online.

The difference is, all the pupils were given iPads in Year 7 so there are no issues about online access and if there were, the schools would sort it. They were well into the habit of using Google Classroom for homework anyway, so this is nothing massively new. There is no option for students not to submit the work in Google Classroom and it has to be done in real time - eg If English is 10-10.45, what you did in that lesson has to be submitted at 10.45. Otherwise the teacher will email the student and parent..

They’ve been doing extra curricular and clubs too - eg photography competitions; online music recitals every week; cookery; debating. The programme for guest speakers is delivered online.

If anything, they are working harder than when they’re at school because the content is a lot. It’s intense and it’s hard to keep up. I have direct experience of three London independents with mine and this is happening in all of them. Teachers were trained and prepared for how to deliver effective online teaching before schools closed. They are having an inset day next Fri for further training / consultation in this area.