please read the guidance for schools....

[Ariseandsmellthetea99]

Key points:
-Since hospital grade PPE is neither obtainable (needed for medical staff) nor practical for teaching young children (scary and next to impossible to teach in) this is not recommended

• Since face coverings would need to be worn by all the children to have any effect at all (this relates to the science that a face covering only protects those around you not the person wearing), this isn't practical or recommended.

-They are NOT suggesting children are kept separate from all other children (as some fairly alarming photos on social media have shown).

-Children should be kept away from others who are NOT in their group bubble (the max 15 other children they WILL be mixing with). These groups should remain the same with the same adult to limit exposure for the adult.

• Any staff who are (clinically) vulnerable or live with someone vulnerable should be leading remote learning from home.

-Any children who are (clinically) vulnerable or who live with vulnerable should stay at home

• Parents should be socially distanced. To enable this, each bubble of 15 children should be dropped off at a different entrance or time.

If you disagree with these measures, please say what measure you think would be better, since children remaining home for up to 2 years is neither desirable nor healthy.

@HeffalumpsCantDance teaching phonics in a facemark and visor would be a challenge though.

@Notsurehow2handlethis now compare it to working in a prison, court, probation office, child protection team, police station working with adults who are wilfully ignoring all guidance, including persisting in sharing I travenous drug paraphernalia, refuse to sanitise etc when asked and also spit/hurl bodily fluids at you.
The guidance and PPE recommendations are the same as for teachers, except we've all been in work the whole time.

The bubble thing only works if you don’t have loads of siblings, surely. If you have a child in say, Year R, plus one in Year 4 and one in Year 6, then what happens is that your reception child comes into contact with someone who has it. Along with the other 13 kids in their cohort. It takes a while for anyone to come out with symptoms but in the meantime, that Year R child comes home and mixes with their siblings, who then come in and mix with another 14 kids, and the Year 6 mixes with a different set again. And now you have 45 kids plus three staff all potentially carrying it.

We were going to do family groups, as we are a small rural school with bundles of families, cousins etc. But that’s been blown out of the water by the gvt plan. Which incidentally, hasn’t been assessed for anything, including potential rates of transmission, by the DfE scientists...

@user1471530109 look up the full document, but sounds like you would be in the group advised to be kept working at home.

I’ve read it and my first concern was that it mentions ‘Learning groups’ of 15 But no mention that this has to be 15 children per classroom. Like with all the other guidelines they are very vague and put the onus on the schools to decide how best to proceed. It has been widely interpreted as 15 per class, I fount heads will decide against this now, so where the hell do schools magic up the extra classrooms from? Only solution I can see is staggered days, yet they mentioned nothing about that in the document. Also really feel for teachers. We’ve spent the last 6 weeks banging on about PPE and they are supposed to go in to the most germ spreading environments (any one that believes schools/kids can practically social distance is deluded) to work with very little attempt to keep them safe.

@Hippywannabe

Please explain to me why I am supposed to be reassured why I am supposed to be reassured by the claim that testing will be available to all in the bubble should a pupil or staff member develop symptoms

I didn’t see that bit in the guidelines? I thought that only individuals showing symptoms got tested?

And also, if I’m understanding this correctly, the guidelines seem to suggest that, if one child shows symptoms, then the rest of the bubble (including teacher I suppose) should all carry on as normal unless that child tests positive. And then, once the positive test is back, the bubble goes off and isolates themselves for 14 days.

So won’t that increase the odds of more people in the bubble getting infected? Say if pupil A infects classmate B a day or two before showing symptoms, and then B is going into school and mingling with the rest of the bubble for a few days before A’s test results are back?

Who are the clinical vulnerable staff and kids? The shielded group or the larger vulnerable group?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-on-shielding-and-protecting-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19/covid-19-guidance-on-protecting-people-most-likely-to-get-unwell-from-coronavirus-shielding-young-peoples-version

Children and young people (0 to 18 years of age) who have been classed as clinically extremely vulnerable due to pre-existing medical conditions have been advised to shield. We do not expect these children to be attending school or college

@Ariseandsmellthetea99 advising someone their children are being removed from their care or that they can't go home after prison release due to the risk they pose to their family who they've not seen for five years, without a visor to protect you is also a challenge.

Gavin Williamson managed to avoid the question about additional teachers in the House of Commons today:

Mr Speaker
We now go north of the border to Carol Monaghan.

Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]
Although young children seem to be less susceptible to covid-19, Professor Graham Medley told the Select Committee on Science and Technology:

“It is still not clear what the role of children is in transmission.”

So what new evidence does the Secretary of State have on the ability of children to transmit, and will he publish it? When the Scottish Government recently published detailed proposals for reopening schools, with a mixture of home and school learning, his colleague the First Secretary of State said that that would cause hospitals to be overwhelmed, so why is England considering this reckless full reopening of primary schools?

Finally, if the ambition is to bring all primary year groups back before the summer holidays, with a maximum of 15 pupils per class, where are the extra teachers going to come from? As most schools do not have rooms lying empty, where are the additional classrooms coming from? Will he reassure teachers and school staff that they will not be expected to make or provide their own personal protective equipment?

Gavin Williamson
'Let me take the opportunity to thank the Scottish Deputy First Minister for the close work and collaboration we have had between ourselves over the past few months, as we have had to deal with this pandemic right across the United Kingdom. The hon. Lady would be asking searching questions of me if, when I am given the scientific and medical advice that it is the right time to be opening up schools, I were not taking up that opportunity. Understandably, SAGE does publish its advice. I have no doubt that it will be publishing the advice it has offered us on what we are doing, and obviously we would be more than happy to make that as freely available as possible.'

That was is whole answer to the various questions.

@babybythesea yes, I think that's a major criticism. Family grouping is far more sensible- especially if part time is required and staggered timings are much easier to implement if all children from the same family arrive at the same time.

@Peapod29 children won't be in full time by any stretch. It's not feasible especially once all the classes are back (even if that is October). Employers and families are going to need to make serious adjustments....

I was talking to our deputy head today and seems very unclear how secondary education will work. In primary schools I presume the teacher is part of the 'bubble' and stays with her class, at secondary children have up to a dozen teachers, are year 11 returning to instruction from all their teachers, do the get a non specialist tutor, do we focus on core subjects? I'm sure we'll get a plan together, everyone wants year 10 in particular back. But it's not easy.
We miss the kids and our job so much. We're desperate to get as many kids in as soon as we can. But it needs to be understood that teaching is a very challenging job in the best circumstances, learning is a complex process. Our education psychology service thinks that a nurture curriculum should be the focus rather than focusing on progress and attainment.

user1471530109

Sorry my post cut off.

Further down the guidance it says

Clinically extremely vulnerable individuals are advised not to work outside the home. We are strongly advising people, including education staff, who are clinically extremely vulnerable (those with serious underlying health conditions which put them at very high risk of severe illness from coronavirus and have been advised by their clinician or through a letter)

So it does seem that clinically extremely vulnerable is referring to those with a letter.

@DontStandSoCloseToMe -Erm...been in work the whole time? Well done you! So have I, and most of the school staff I know. Also get spat at and deal with bodily fluids daily, part of the joy of working in special education. Let's both pat each other on the back shall we, we'll be totally safe as long as we're not facing each other apparently?!?

Let's say those measures with

1. we have a robust 99.9% actuate test that will be immediately available to any teacher, staff or child and results are instant..

So above exposed can instantly isolate.

2. masks to be worn by children and staff.

3. consistency for all education settings, learning for all.

A lot of people have been saying how difficult home schooling is and how they don’t feel they can do it. So is an experienced TA working under the guidance of a teacher a problem. It doesn’t seem likely that every child will be able to have a teacher. I think the real problem will be that the number of TAs has been drastically reduced in schools. 😢

@ineedaholidaynow

I guess the TA thing may vary between schools.
I know my DC’s school have general TAs for the Reception and Yr1 classes. I’m not sure about higher up the school. They’ve also got a couple of the staff listed on their website as PPA cover who normally do the PE and art lessons.

So if my ds attends school, 1 of his 15 or teacher in the bubble gets a positive CV test, ds, me, dd and dh have to self isolate for 2 weeks?

Ds won't be going then. We've already done a 2 week stint self isolating because he got a cough just before lockdown. Missed the last week, dd missed her last week at school and dh missed a full 2 weeks of work. We can't afford for him to lose another 2 weeks. So will be a no from me when previously it would have been a yes.

Of course if someone in our house had symptoms we would self isolate again. But it's 4 of us. Not 4 plus 16 so if hes at school we've got 4x the chance of having to self isolate. 16 times. Plus I am 90% sure we've already had it.

@DontStandSoCloseToMe indeed. PPE is inherently a challenge and sounds like for you it's very important. I'm interested because the unions have repeatedly called for it, yet others feel it would do more more harm than good. I would love to see a study on this. It's certainly not a given that you are more at risk as a teacher than an office worker with aircon. Being in an office with an asymptomatic work colleague you will very likely get it due to length of exposure, from the research I have seen.

@Notsurehow2handlethis my point is this isn't just about teachers, lots of us have roles where we will have a higher risk of transmission than say an office admin , it doesn't mean we can just say I'm not going to work as you should know. No one can guarantee anything, IME you're probably most likely to catch it from morons in Tesco

@Frouby I think schools won't have anywhere near full take up which will help matters for headteachers so long as numbers are consistent. If that rule remains in place until Easter 2022 would you continue to refuse the place?

Chief scientific adviser to DfE says he has not assessed how school reopening plans can be implemented

@Ariseandsmellthetea99 no not until then obviously. I desperately want to send him back. But have to weigh up the need for my husband to earn money to pay the bills. He's self employed, we get the grant next week but that's it.

I would hope by September at the latest the track and trace is working properly and I can judge whether it's safe for him to go. Atm it's an act of faith.

@HeffalumpsCantDance if the child in my dcs class who has a 1:1 loses her then my DC won't go back to school. She gets very violent when scared or overwhelmed as both my DC have been badly hurt by her before. She does really well with her 1:1 and deserves her to access education.

It feels unfair for teachers having complete responsibility for a class at a distance while also teaching full time and being unable to pop in and supervise and unfair on TAs who are not paid to

@HeffalumpsCantDance @GrimmsFairytales
Children with SEND in mainstream schools have been so badly provided for, for a decade. Very few have 1:1 provided and funded by an ECHP. It's the vast majority without a 1:1 that won't manage. Although some may do better with consistent staff member and smaller groups, if they don't then the rest of the group 'makes do' whilst the adult calms and supports them. Not at all ideal and also what happens on a daily basis for many classes, isn't it. This just highlights the issue but it doesn't create the issue.