Our children have the right to an education.

[NameChange738676756]

So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

@harpingon
You're definitely going to be jumped on for that comment! I do agree that safety trumps educational rights. But it's the safety of more than just teachers that is at stake - outbreaks in schools can lead to outbreaks in the community, putting everyone at risk. The risk to under 45s is extremely low. The risk to under 65s is quite low. But the risk to the over 65s is high. I'm not very worried about my personal risk in going back to school. I am worried about the risk to my parents and other vulnerable people.

@qweryuiop are you sending your parents and vulnerable people to school?
are you going to be allowing your children to visit them after lockdown?

how would they pick the virus up if were to send your to school?

David Blunkett has come out today wanting schools to open and he used to be Labour education minister. We either need to get the schools back or make teachers redundant and give parents a voucher they can use at private schools as another option.

I'm sure all the parents with children at private schools would be delighted at little Harry from the Council Estate rocking up to their establishment! I bet they can stick lots more of kids in classrooms of 15 than the average state school. I bet the schools themselves will be even more delighted as it gives them reason to hike their prices so that they can retain their elite status and keep the riff raff out by making their fees too high to use state vouchers.

Anyway just because an ex Labour minister says the schools should go back still doesn't make it practical nor possible to do so within the guidance that has been laid out either. He might actually want to listen to all the reasons the unions are saying this isn't possible.

For starters, here is a simple maths problem for you to solve:

How do you fit 14 classes of 30 into groups of no more than 15 when you have a maximum of 15 separate rooms? And then staff it with at least one member of staff when you have 14 teachers and half a dozen teaching assistants?

People who have had a glittering education at an amazing private school have been taught them the sum total of fuck all about how the reality of how most people in this country live.

It's quite special to behold people talking about the virtues and superior nature of private schools when they churn out such muppets who don't have a fucking clue.

Or heres another logistics puzzle for you to wrap your head around

How do you stagger pick up and drop off times for 300+ children, some of whom have siblings in other classes MAKING SURE that all their parents stay more than 2metres apart whilst waiting and don't socialise with other parents?

Or merely,

How do you teach children through play when you've been told to remove all the toys you havent got the staffing power to clean?

These and so many other gems of bullshit.

Everyone's lives matter.

Teachers despite some of them having a god complex, are no more special than anyone else, and shouldn't expect nor receive preferential treatment. I'm far more concerned for those in NHS or care settings, who are actively dealing with Covid patients.

After all, we still don't know for certain if children can even transmit the virus.

Red I think you might have to wait a long time for answers to your questions.

@RedToothBrush Those are the questions I've been wondering about. Pick up times are my biggest concern. I've been unwell with COVID-19 symptoms for weeks now and my DH has asthma.

Hopefully there will be a solution, but I very much fear that it's way too early. I will wait to see what plans our DDs' school can put in place before I pass judgement, though.

DD1 can walk to and from school so this isn't an issue in June, but it really will be an issue when DD2 goes back, as she's in year 3 and there's a handover.

I think so many people have a real difficulty understanding how many parents/teachers there are who will be vulnerable/shielding. It really isn't just about the elderly.

Teachers despite some of them having a god complex, are no more special than anyone else, and shouldn't expect nor receive preferential treatment.

How about equal treatment to those in other workplaces rather than just saying the social distancing requirements that are so important everywhere else are not going to apply in schools?
If the government had even made some suggestions about how to manage social distancing in schools (like they have in Denmark as the example so readily given on here for why schools should open) then perhaps teachers wouldn't feel so annoyed. It's like the message is "social distancing is essential in maintaining everyone's safety, unless you work in a school".

I have always been fully prepared to go back when necessary and realise that social distancing is not going to look the same as in other places, but I'm still pissed off at the message being given that we are less important than other workers.

And the most recent scientific evidence is all pointing to the likelihood that children and other asymptomatic sufferers are transmitting the virus, probably widely.

@Astrid84

are you sending your parents and vulnerable people to school?
Obviously not. Thanks for the sarcasm.
are you going to be allowing your children to visit them after lockdown?
Not in the short term, but not the point.
how would they pick the virus up if were to send your to school?*
Because a rise in the R rate increases the risk to everybody. Right now, the rate of infection in the population is very low, and therefore the R is very low. If the rate of infection goes up, the R rises.

Also, I'm not suggesting that any of this is specific to schools. It's relevant to all parts of lifting lockdown.

But then I also don't think we should be in lockdown forever.

I don't have a solution, I'm just voicing concerns.

Although I really want to be proved wrong, as my DDs are really struggling with the lack of routine and not seeing their friends. It also hasn't helped to feel judged because I'm not able to educate my DDs due to being too unwell and possibly still infectious. My DH has asthma so I can't take chances.

He's really trying but he has to work as well and it's a very big ask.

I do remember you found it difficult to understand that many poor people are unable to educate their children currently due to lack of money and resources

And I have responded to this multiple times, ultimately saying why is it the responsibility of teachers to magic up these resources? Why haven't the government thought "oooo why are teachers and parents struggling to deliver what we've asked them to do?" Remembering of course the lack of support given to social services by government to encourage those who are classed as most vulnerable to attend school during lockdown.

You know, maybe a workable government policy to address things like Broadband Poverty and high levels of IT illiteracy amongst the most deprived (we could translate this into a long term strategy for supporting home education for home work set during normal times too). I clearly missed the big announcement at a Daily Presser for a scheme to share old laptops or reconditioned computers or a deal with Amazon for so many free kindles. Instead we have the Daily Bullshit Response as to why we still haven't got widespread community testing for those people who can't drive 200miles and why Care Homes are still begging for PPE.

But yep its the Teachers who are the Big Bad Nasty Workshy Bastards. LOOK SQUIRRELS.

The solution to the problem is not to expect teachers to turn water into wine and to be responsible for picking up the pieces of the fuckwitted decisions that Etonian Old Boys and their Network of OxBridge Educated Mates keep making.

Is it?

IS IT?

Teachers are just the latest scape goat in a very long line of them to cover up for monumental levels of incompetence.

We either need to get the schools back or make teachers redundant and give parents a voucher they can use at private schools as another option

Agree with Xenia.

I don't understand the private school voucher at all. Do they physically attend? Do they all join on Zoom? Is there a cost for infrastructure online and in the buildings? If they attend what about transport? How is it calculated- same cost as currently paid by customers? Are classes streamed? How does it work for pupils with SEN? Do you get to choose a school? (mine will take Eton thank you) What if you have been given a crap private school (they exist). How much more marking is expected? What happens at the end of this?

I'd prefer to invest in the people and communities we already have.

I don't understand the private school voucher at all.

Oh I do.

They are small state idealists, who think they shouldn't pay for anything that they don't use and that everyone should pay their own way. They are advocates of the rather Thatcherite idea that private means better quality and that public sector is populated by people who are lazy.

If ONLY it were that simple.

There have been a lot of good points on all sides, but the focus on money doesn't make sense to me, especially with things as they are where a lot of services are not being provided. I seriously doubt that there will be a such a move to home education long term that there will be a significant drop in teachers and other school staff needed. Really, with the previous retention & recruitment issues and recommendations for smaller classes, more are going to be needed and a lot of schools are going to continue to struggle to get the numbers they already need.

In my experience and in the data I've seen, most home educators in the UK are in the 'reluctant' category, either pulled their kids out of schools or, like the cases brought up in this thread, there aren't provisions being provided for them. Both groups have a lot of issues that are often swept aside. I doubt with so many parents desperate to get their kids provisions with no end in sight and home educated teens who can't get help with the costs of exams as private candidates that we can realistically expect vouchers for private schools or for home education. I don't see how that would work within the current system.

Yes, legally, parents are responsible for their children's right to an education. That isn't new, it's part of why it's difficult for parents or pupils to take actions against bad schools or lack of provisions. It's also part of why any parent, unless there is a school order in place, can home educate even when it's obviously not something everyone should do or could do long term without the strains many are already seeing and those who have been without provision have had for a long time. It's much like we're also responsible for dealing with our waste even when our local authorities have a legal responsibility to collect some of it. Some areas are better at that than others, there have been obvious differences in some areas lately, and people who deal with their waste themselves don't get paid even when there have been big disruptions (which does tend to bring out resource recommendations, many of which aren't always entirely helpful for those struggling, like those of us that don't drive). While there are some great examples of people dealing with waste to minimize environmental impacts, that doesn't mean everyone could or should do it.

We've no idea what the consequences will be for the current provision in the future so we can't really say yet that any lack will have no consequences for those teachers or schools. What those consequences should be, I'm not sure. With the difficulties many had with system before all this happened, it will likely be a postcode lottery of resuilts.

People who have had a glittering education at an amazing private school have been taught them the sum total of fuck all about how the reality of how most people in this country live

I teach part-time at a private school in the middle of what is broadly a very deprived part of the country. The school works tirelessly from a charitable perspective to help the wider community around it. Our students are very, very aware of the just how lucky they are and of the issues many people, including their neighbours, are facing. As staff who work on charitable projects, we make sure that we give context and get students to look at the bigger picture.

It is frustrating to me, as an educator, that the assumption is we do nothing at all to help our students get perspective. It is something we work hard at. I am proud of my involvement in that and am proud otherwise priviledged young people get to see what is going on in their community. They may be lucky enough to never experience it themselves but I really believe that by far the majority have been humbled by their experiences and will not be people who assume poor person = lazy.

I wouldn't have shut schools in the first place and I would keep class sizes etc as they are. Only 322 people under 45 years have died of CV19 in the UK so just keep those people at risk at home and those not at risk in schools.

@Xenia the last week of term before lockdown we were down 1/3 of staff. Had to stop 2 year groups coming in as not enough adults. Lots of kids off too as vulnerable themselves or live with people who are.
We need a plan that allows everyone to get educated and everyone not to die.

We need a plan that allows everyone to get educated and everyone not to die.

We have 2m unemployed now. I am sure we can find cover. My mother taught classes of 40 after WWII without a teaching assistant.

If we stopped paying teachers any pay when off sick (I don't get paid when off sick) that might help.

wouldn't have shut schools in the first place and I would keep class sizes etc as they are. Only 322 people under 45 years have died of CV19 in the UK so just keep those people at risk at home and those not at risk in schools

^^ This, in spades.

Yes Xenia, back when disabled children were shoved into institutions, when it was fine to hit children with sticks, when there was no OFSTED and teachers were respected by society and education was valued. I'm SURE she'd be fine with modern schools.

"If we stopped paying teachers any pay when off sick (I don't get paid when off sick) that might help."

Help what? What are you talking about???

@Xenia they were not off sick. Well 2 were in ICU but I expect you'd still want them to be setting lessons. One subsequently died - suppose she's a work shy layabout who shouldn't get her pension paid to get 3 kids.
The others off were either pregnant or isolating as told to by the rules. Because they have cancer or diabetes or heart problems or any of the many things adults have. Just like every other single workplace in the country. Do your rules apply to lawyers too ? If they are sick or isolating do they not get paid ? Probably doesn't matter as they earn (fleece) so much money they can cope without a salary.

Must be so nice to sit in your ivory towers telling other people how to do their jobs.

"Only 322 people under 45 years have died of CV19" yes because we went into lockdown, the numbers would have been much higher if we'd gone for herd immunity and overwhelmed the NHS (which is a possibility if we have a second wave and do nothing). What part of the science do you not understand? If you have 100 people turn up at hospital on the same day all needing respirators but only have 20 machines, 80 die. If you have 100 people turn up over three weeks and have 20 respirators 5 die (as the equipment was free to help 95) Simple maths that maybe you might have learnt at school if you were paying attention.