Our children have the right to an education.

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So many posts about whether schools will be safe when they reopen but I’m not seeing this point made. Lots of discussion around the childcare that schools provide and the importance on children socially.

My 11 year old has lost all interest and I can’t get him to do anything significant. We’ve had one zoom social with his teacher and classmates. So pretty much zero learning going on.

We know children are less susceptible and there is some discussion around whether they’re transmitting less. The children of key workers (i.e. the ones more likely to catch and spread it) have been at school the whole time and as far as I know there haven’t been massive outbreaks in schools.

So I think I just want to loudly shout: our children have the right to an education.

Some of these posts about the private sector and their planning are hilarious. Did you get advice from MN about how to do your risk assessments and strategic planning.

Its given me a good giggle that they genuinely believe that there are headteachers up and down the country that haven't done a 'proper evaluation of the building, i.e. classroom size, toilet layout, kitchens, staff rooms, communal areas, corridors, etc., would need to be done in respect of working out how social distancing could be maintained'

Yes children have a right to an education but not at the cost of my DH's life. He is shielding and I have been working from home. I teach Reception who cannot social distance and in an area where the present key worker/vunerable children are coming to school grubby. Children are excellent vectors of the virus - I am not prepared to risk bringing it home. I'm sure that by September the risk will have reduced by a more acceptable level with all the extra precautions. It is too soon now.

Yes children have a right to an education but not at the cost of my DH's life.

I'm sorry. Its a hard situation and I am sure i would be worried if I were in the same position.

But legally you do not get to stay at home because you are living with someone who is shielding.

Many others are in the same position and been going to work throughout this.

Crap I know, but its crap for everyone, especially the children.

Hi all,
Thanks to mumneedswine who has buzzed in to ask us to post a bit of a 'peace and love' and remind everyone that we're all (yes, all) a bit frazzled right now and probably trying to do our jobs with kids at our ankles.
Peace and love and a bit of understanding is what's needed. We're a discussion site and clearly everyone has lots to discuss, and that will include job challenges of all stripes.
We've suggested to some of the more heated posters on here to take a little step back, and for those who are finding the thread difficult to read we might now suggest the same.

@Grasspigeons plenty of teachers on this thread saying they haven’t done any planning until the government set the rules as they needed them first, saying they don’t know how it will work, how can distancing be maintained in corridors etc so that’s why I thought that planning might not be being done

@Lostmyshityear9
its going to be different, less time in lessons, more time transiting and washing hands. Teachers having to spend longer with one particular group. Not the school we were used to but it is still worthwhile. This is going to be “normal” for the foreseeable not just in school but everywhere. Life has got a whole lot more complicated for everyone, we now need to make the best of it for our children’s sakes, to allow them to socialise (from a distance) and access some sort of education, to allow their parents to work to avoid a massive worldwide depression.

The government guidance is flexible from what I have read, it suggests yr and Y1 and y6 but says if they can’t be managed do your best. It’s says don’t worry if you can’t cover the whole curriculum. It advises shielded pupils And staff not to come in. It allows for other staff to supervise different years if teachers are unavailable.

Temperature screening has been shown not to work, vigilance for symptoms is important however.

This thread

I have a lot of sympathy with people who feel very scared and who don't feel they'll be protected when they go back to work. I can imagine in that situation I'd feel very nervous too. In particular I think if you have a child with serious underlying health issues or if you or your partner has serious issues, you should be supported in keeping your child off for now. We can't apply one rule to everyone.

But we now have the data to show that people under the age of 65 are at very low risk of dying from this virus, and that's particularly the case if you have no health issues. Children they are at far higher risk of dying from self harm or car accidents or any number of other things than they are of the virus.

We don't seem to be giving any thought to the many thousands of vulnerable children who only have a break from significant sexual abuse at home by going to school. The many who are being hit on a regular basis or who go without adequate food. Those numbers are far higher than the children who will be ever be affected by C-19. They matter. Right now, it feels as if they don't. The vast majority of them are definitely not being kept safe right now and even if they are technically free to go to school (if they are known to social services), most will be sitting at home. And many children are affected by too low a level of abuse to be known about but they matter too and need to be in school.

And it's not just them - there are so many people posting online right now about their otherwise happy, well-adjusted, relatively privileged children who are starting to experience mental health difficulties and significant ones at that. Many of those children will be ok once they get back into a school setting. Some definitely won't be but the harm is going to be greater, the longer they are away from school.

I don't want the virus to be free to spread. I don't want teachers to be put at more risk than they have to be and I certainly don't want anyone to die. But we have to think of more than just the impact of the virus. In the case of children and teachers and parents, the virus poses a very low risk indeed. Even when there is a vaccine, there is a chance it won't save everyone. Not all vaccines are effective for all. Are people still going to refuse to go into work or send their child into school if that's the case? How do you envision living any kind of a life over the next few years?

@babybythesea I get that it’s confusing about being able to see other people’s grandkids but not your own, it’s kind of like care workers get to see other people’s granny’s but not there own. On a population level doing it this way reduces transmission 15 kids to one adult rather than 15 kids to 15 different adults and it also reduces adult to adult transmissions

With regards to meeting up in parks Between families, the issue there is with supervision while reducing adult to adult transmission. Some European countries are letting the under 12s mix freely outside without adults and that could work here but we don’t let our kids do much unsupervised. So school will let those kids mix with less adult to adult transmission. I do think there is an argument that spaces for 8-12 year olds only should be opened up like Parcs so they can go there and get the Benifits of socialising without adults being placed at risk because the undeniable fact is that children are being disadvantaged and harmed buy measures that on the whole are their to protect adults and for me that sits very wrong

Totally agree OP. People are massively exaggerating the risk and want to basically sit at home on full
pay for the next how many months without a care for how the children will be faring in all of this.

its crap for everyone, especially the children

People keep saying this, but quite frankly it's biased nonsense. The people who have it worst are the people who are actually at risk of losing their lives or someone close to them. The people stuck in care homes. The people isolating alone. The people at risk of losing their homes.

Provisions need to be put in place to ensure children catch up on any qualifications they have missed, but they don't have it worse than everyone else.

Most of the kids I know are having a high old time, to be honest.

My friend has a Cambridge degree, as does her husband, and she’s spending her evenings crafting timetables and finding resources. It’ll be ‘an education’, I guess, but it definitely won’t be a good one.

Crikey! Your friend needs to pull her socks up and level up with everyone else’s standards then.

A child's right to an education does not come ahead of a teacher's right to health and safety at work.

www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/re-opening-schools-among-the-safest-things-in-next-few-months-taoiseach-says-1.4252469

This is interesting

Quick poll. How many of you went into the office today ? Surely you should have planned to go back by now - it's easy and safe to do apparently.

a 'high old time' seeing no friends and not being able to play in play parks? Doesn't sound much fun really.

People do die, every day. From lots of different causes. This virus for the healthy is no more dangerous than many other infectious diseases which people do still die from every year. People still die from flu in their thousands, from pneumonia, TB, measles. But the stats aren't front and centre in the papers, there's not a daily death toll, people generally aren't very aware of it, and that's why this all seems so horrifying.

The reality is that parents have been getting on with lockdown as best they can. Some haven't been happy with the output from teachers or schools but most have just sucked it up and muddled through. With the expectation schools would go back asap because you know, teachers are educated, they can understand risks and will realise these are low, plus it's better to have wave 2 sooner rather than later etc.

What's got people's backs up and rightly so is the can't do attitude. Teachers are being asked to phase back the reopening of schools, where the risks overall are pretty low, not face a firing squad.

The question which no teacher or indeed their exalted unions can answer is if not now, when?

Nothing will magically change by September. And if we do wait until then, leaving aside the economic car crash and psychological impact, the second inevitable wave risks overwhelming the NHS. Will teachers be willing to take the blame in that event, or will that also be someone else's fault?

Quick poll. How many of you went into the office today ? Surely you should have planned to go back by now - it's easy and safe to do apparently.

But I can do my job to the same level at home. Teachers can’t. It is a pretty obvious difference.

We don't seem to be giving any thought to the many thousands of vulnerable children who only have a break from significant sexual abuse at home by going to school. The many who are being hit on a regular basis or who go without adequate food. Those numbers are far higher than the children who will be ever be affected by C-19.

Isn't it fucking sad that's it is just accepted that the only break for some children from this is going to school. Can we all not to more to protect them?

2 more months off will not ruin kids lives educationally. But it may kill them and their teachers.

I see this kind of thinking over on Mumsnet, but why does everyone think it will have changed in 2 months time? We won't have a vaccine by then and we won't have eradicated it. If anything, going to school in the run up to the flu season will be even worse!

A 'high old time' seeing no friends and not being able to play in play parks? Doesn't sound much fun really

Many children are pretty happy plodding along watching endless YouTube. Bored, maybe, but not much more.

Not minimising anything but I really don't think lack of play parks constitutes children having it worse than the many people facing a high likelihood of death, possibly alone or in dire financial circumstances.

The fact remains that, abusive situations aside, most children at least have one loving parent to isolate with, possibly a whole family. They are not likely to die, they are not responsible for earning money during a pandemic.

I think a lot of people on here are just seeing the effects on children first hand and, bizarelly, assuming they must have it worse than everybody else. There's no reason to think that, their situation is comparatively positive compared to most other people.

You talk like schools have the same autonomy as small businesses - we dont. There have been lots of contingency plans put into the 'just in case' folder, but no, we didnt spend a lot of time planning for all of the possible variations for opening schools, firstly because until we are told by government what we have to do it is a giant waste of time, and secondly because we were busy planning and resourcing 'home learning'. It takes time to redesign things that pupils can access. Marking takes ages too. I spend a lot of my day in email conversations with pupils helping them to access their work. We haven't been sat twiddling our thumbs or having a holiday. I've had two meetings today via zoom which have taken up three hours of my day. Ive set work, marked work, emailed back and forth with pupils, parents and staff. I wanted to revamp my Yr 8 power point presentation for one of my schemes but I haven't got to it yet. I will do it once my kids are in bed though, because I want my resources and to be as good as possible when our kids return. But the school day ended 10 minutes ago so I'm going to stop and take my two kids for a walk and try not to feel too guilty that Disney Plus has been their parent for most of the day. I can prove exactly what my salary has bought since schools closed. Neither the school, nor my pupils have been short changed. My own kids have though which is more than a little bit sad.

The other thing is that since lockdown on 23 March) teachers have been on 100% pay, had 3 1/2 weeks holiday (my schools Easter break) and before 01 June will get another weeks holiday. So that is 4 and a half weeks out of the 10 week lockdown till 01 June. Then 6-8 weeks later they get to have 6-8 weeks off.

Honestly, what other profession does this? Sorry but you are taking the piss. It's time to get back to school and help reboot our economy along with the rest of us. I'm ready to go back to work tomorrow to do my bit and I work with the general public and also believe I caught it from the general public and passed it onto my whole family.

BTW, most teachers accept the phased reopening, but primaries will have two weeks of phases reopening before they are expected to have all pupils in. In my LEA, it's one week as our holidays are starting earlier. That is very quick and it needs careful planning to keep children and families safe. It is better in secondary as we are only expected to phase yr 10 and 12 in. But, we now need to answer the question of how we teach them when they cant be in their normal groups. Where do we start? What does GCSE/Alevel performing arts and PE do about practical lessons? How do we make their time in school count, what do we do for those who choose not to attend so they dont miss out. What pastoral support will those who have lost people need. It isnt an easy or quick fix, especially when we have only had guidance for 3 days. Guidance which has changed.

"The question which no teacher or indeed their exalted unions can answer is if not now, when?"
This has been answered lots of times already on various threads.
Waiting for September gives time for the test and trace scheme to be fully up and running and the R value to reduce further.
Both these things mean risks to everyone in schools will be reduced, even though the children can't do social distancing. It also means less risk that the R value will go over 1
It also gives time for the government to come up with additional money for more classrooms and washrooms and additional cleaning staff and all the other things that will actually make it possible for schools to follow the guidelines given by the government.

We didnt get our holiday. It was business as usual. I was in looking after keyworkers kids. I will also be in over half term. All planning/meetings/phonecalls/pupil support continuted. We provided catch up support for pupils who were behind after initially struggling with lock down learning. And our holidays are UNPAID.