Headteacher has posted this to facebook

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The headteacher at my DCs school has posted this to Facebook. He says that social distancing is impossible and unless we would be happy to let our DC play in a supermarket for hours to 'not even think about' bringing them to school. I have 2 expected back on June 1st. AIBU to keep them off after this?

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10222994594279008&id=1403891361

if managed properly.

That's a very big if!

There’s more risk to children getting to school than from covid.

Can you put a number on that? What is the precise level of risk from spending a day in a room with 15 other people? In effect mingling with 15 other households. If you have two children in school you will be mingling with 30 other households and if you have three you will be mingling with 45 other households. Can you tell me the exact level of risk that would be?

Number of under 19s who have died from covid in the UK since the start of the pandemic, including those with significant health issues: can't find an exact figure ( surely someone should be keeping count?), but it seems about 7.

Number of under 18s killed in traffic accidents in the UK every week : 11.

I'm not a statistician, but to me that says that yes indeed, children are more at risk from their journey to school than they are from covid.

I'm not a statistician, but to me that says that yes indeed, children are more at risk from their journey to school than they are from covid.

And the risks to the families that they may take it home to?

Number of under 18s killed in traffic accidents in the UK every week : 11.

Of those how many were travelling to school at the time?

Also, does the 7 include those children affected by the new syndrome?

Nobody please.see your own post above, what data there is supports the thesis that children are not spreading the virus to adults very easily, at all. I can't find it now but a few weeks ago read an article on the contact tracing done on a child who had confirmed covid on a skiing holiday. He mixed with something like 70 others and didn't pass it to a single one, including his own siblings. It's v interesting, I'll try to find it.

Oh ffs okay, I'm not saying that all those deaths occured en route to school, what I'm saying is, travelling on or walking near a road is significantly more dangerous to children than coronavirus, but you're not keeping your DC from travelling in a vehicle or walking near a road until its been made 'safe', whatever that means to you, are you?

And the risks to the families that they may take it home to?
But adult to adult is demonstrately higher risk. Now that people are allowed to shop, work , walk around in garden centres and golf courses it’s all a much higher risk despite social distancing.
So if you have kids at school or work in a school as an adult, you have to be more aware. Kids aren’t the problem because they really don’t get ill in the same way. Let them learn. And continue to be extra careful if you are over 55 or BAME or overweight.

Someone linked to this earlier:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/13/are-children-less-susceptible-to-coronavirus

However, it is not yet clear whether they have a lower chance of catching Covid-19. Although fewer children have been picked up in national testing programmes, this could be due to fewer being tested. During the early phase of the epidemic in Europe, adult travellers played a dominant role in seeding infections, which also meant, purely for circumstantial reasons, that children would have played a less significant role in spreading infections.

Studies on this question give a mixed picture. One analysis, in the Lancet Infectious Diseases, of households with confirmed Covid-19 in Shenzhen, China, found that children younger than ten were just as likely as adults to get infected. However, there is other evidence from South Korea, Italy and Iceland suggesting lower infection rates among children. Some of the difference could also be down to differences in social mixing.

I'd hazard a guess that one reason children haven't been getting it is that schools have been closed.

Also this one:

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/13/opening-schools-could-fuel-coronavirus-spread-dfe-adviser-admits

Rahman told the committee there was little evidence to suggest children transmit the virus any differently from adults. “There are some studies which suggest that they might transmit it less than adults, but this evidence is mixed, it’s quite early, and so there is a low degree of confidence among Sage [the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies] currently in the evidence which suggests that they might transmit it less.”

nothingcomestonothing v good explanation of risk of covid to children.
In 2012 something like 3000 children between the ages of 1 and 19 died per year. Greatest cause of deaths was accidents, second greatest suicide... Just think about life for children cooped up for 5 months + and perhaps not in the best setting...

but you're not keeping your DC from travelling in a vehicle or walking near a road until its been made 'safe', whatever that means to you, are you?

No, but I make damn sure that any vehicle they travel in is as safe as it can be, including using protective equipment and I don't let them walk by roads on their own until they are old enough to know how to behave safely to reduce the chance of accidents.

And continue to be extra careful if you are over 55 or BAME or overweight.

Only staff with shielding letters are allowed to not come into my school so all those that fall into the vulnerable category will still be there. I'm not sure how extra careful they can be?

LOL my bad it wasn't 70 it was over 170 contacts he didn't infect:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/boy-with-covid-19-did-not-transmit-disease-to-more-than-170-contacts

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-chief-scientific-adviser-admits-he-hasnt-assessed-school-reopening-guidance/

bit of an oophs moment for the fee. Interesting questions by Parliamentary committee member on vectors

nobody you are clearly wedded to your opinion no matter what else is laid in front of you. You might keep your vehicle safe, and teach your DC how to cross a road properly, but that doesn't prevent a drink driver mounting the kerb and killing them, does it? Or someone off their tits on spice ramming your car off the road? You manage the risk as best you can, but you cannot remove the risk. I really don't understand how you can be ok with that risk, but can't countenance a much, much smaller one.

LOL my bad it wasn't 70 it was over 170 contacts he didn't infect:

I did read about that before and it is interesting, but it is only one case and it could have been an anomaly.

I don't know why I'm arguing with you really. I do think the risk for children is low. I just think we need to be careful about making statements comparing risks as though that is a fact when we don't actually know. We've yet to see the impact of longer-term issues from the virus. I have read about people who have had it being left with lung damage even when they were asymptomatic. Then there's this new syndrome in children. We know it impacts more than just lungs. There are so many unknowns at this point.

I'd feel a lot happier if we had a lot fewer cases before we started opening things up, not just schools, which seems to be what is happening in every country apart from England and America. I don't have confidence in the decision making that is happening and it would seem that the experts elsewhere around the world are making very different decisions. It is worrying when I have friends and colleagues who are heavily pregnant/asthmatic/diabetic/cancer survivors etc. who are all going to have to work in our school.

Does anyone know if there have been any mini outbreaks at schools which have been open for keyworker kids?
Genuine question
Appreciate it’s different with numbers but some of the same concerns will surely still apply such as kids not adhering to social distancing.
Would be really interested to know.
For example if there has not been a single case of it spreading in schools I think that would be reassuring.

The man is a self publicist as evidenced by the lengthy “who is Rob” section on his own website.

Totally agree with the above. He seems full of himself and rather publicity hungry. Not to mention unprofessional. He should have liased with governors and had an open conversation with parents in a professional manner, rather than just spouting off on his own.

nobody I trust BoJo the clown and his crew of morally bankrupt, self serving, promoted-well-above-their-ability tossers as far as I could throw them. I don't for a second believe they are making decisions in the best interests of any of us plebs. But I do have some faith both in what evidence we've got about how covid works, and in my lived experience working in a major hospital with my DC in school throughout this pandemic.

I really believe that DC going back to school, on the balance of probability, will do my and other DC more good than not doing so. For some vulnerable DC, it might literally save their lives, and I see red when I see people spreading unfounded fear, which is what I think this headteacher did. He sowed doubts about safety, then told parents that if they have any doubts, 'don't even think about sending your kids to school'. He must know that the risks of not going to school are higher for some (most?) DC than the risk they'll catch covid and get at all ill, let alone die. He must know that. I also hugely resent his implication that parents who would send their DC to school don't care enough not to - I'm NHS and a single parent, my options are limited to send DC to school, or lose the ability to pay the mortgage. I know which poses more risk to my DCs health.

The lockdown seems to have had an unexpected (to me anyway) effect of hugely distorting the perception of relative risk. I haven't got that, because I'm at work and in the world every day, but for some who haven't left their immediate environs for weeks it seems to have sparked disproportionate fear which I'd like public policy to address much more. The fears many have about sending DC to school could be mitigated with decent info, but instead we've mostly got BoJo, with his meaningless slogans and his amazing ability to talk and talk while saying nothing, and Daily Fail-style drama. I think most of us arguing amongst ourselves have more ideas in common than we realise.

Sharkyfan, I've posed this question and IIRC someone said they knew of 2 children however as DC of keyworkers it was thought they had caught it from parents rather than at school.

I'm not aware of any instances of teachers working with keyworker children contracting the virus either. And although a stat about deaths of school staff in 2020 has been referenced, there was no clarification as to how many died of or with Covid, nor of those whether any were actually working in schools (rather than on LTS due to other conditions) at the time of transmission.

Therefore on the available evidence the risks to teachers and children is very low. Hence we need to stop this panicked hysteria and allow children to return to school, businesses that can't operate from home to reopen etc.

Nothing I completely agree.

The level of fear of this disease is what concerns me. Especially when a headteacher who should have more sense and intelligence is basically whipping up panic. He's not the only one, I've seen at least 2 others doing this. Fuelling fears of those parents who havent understood what lockdown was for and dont understand the actual level of risk, or guilt tripping those who need to send their children back so they can work. Completely unprofessional.

@Sharkyfan have made this suggestion/asked that question several times on these threads, but no-one seems to want to look at it. @Jojobar, I agree, it's madness and surely is NOT doing our children's/ns' mental health any good at all! I keep seeing petitions on FB but where is the evidence that it's a dangerous place for children to be? My son's school has been open with groups of key workers' kids, teachers and kitchen staff since lockdown began and I honestly believe the school would have let us parents know had there been a case within the school, either related to being there or not.

@sharkyfan Does anyone know if there have been any mini outbreaks at schools which have been open for keyworker kids?
Genuine question
Appreciate it’s different with numbers but some of the same concerns will surely still apply such as kids not adhering to social distancing.
Would be really interested to know.
For example if there has not been a single case of it spreading in schools I think that would be reassuring

The reason there haven't been any mini outbreaks is there are very few children, minimal staff and social distancing adhered to. The problem is that as the number of children increases social distancing goes out the window, even the government guidance admits that it's not going to happen.

I'm not aware of any instances of teachers working with keyworker children contracting the virus either. And although a stat about deaths of school staff in 2020 has been referenced, there was no clarification as to how many died of or with Covid, nor of those whether any were actually working in schools (rather than on LTS due to other conditions) at the time of transmission.

"Deaths involving coronavirus recorded for more than 60 educational staff in England and Wales, new data shows"

www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-revealed-least-26-teachers-have-died-covid-19

I know it isn't a huge number and many professions are represented in the death statistics but the point is we are not immune and we will be extremely vulnerable if the return goes ahead as currently planned.

idontgetpaidenoughforthis

I know my daughters primary school only has 8 children attending at the moment and social distancing is working well as I asked the teacher when she phoned us. Unfortunately, on June 1st, there will be about 200 children in school if all parents send their children so I don’t feel reassured at all.

@idontgetpaidenoughforthis
I do appreciate it’s different as I said, but I can’t believe that social distancing is being observed at all times, even with the limited numbers. And the children that are there will be at higher risk from contracting it from keyworker parents so I do think it’s a relevant question