Headteacher has posted this to facebook

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The headteacher at my DCs school has posted this to Facebook. He says that social distancing is impossible and unless we would be happy to let our DC play in a supermarket for hours to 'not even think about' bringing them to school. I have 2 expected back on June 1st. AIBU to keep them off after this?

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10222994594279008&id=1403891361

@3cats

Oh for goodness sake- I am a Dr working on a covid ward- I’m well aware (probably more than many) of the devastating consequences of this disease. I’m not saying there is NOTHING to be concerned about. I’m well aware that covid-19 has caused a worldwide pandemic which has led to tens of thousands of deaths and is going to cause thousands more. That does not mean you through sense out of the window! I’m not advocating a mass easing of lockdown, which you’d think I would be in favour of if I thought the virus was nothing to be worried about.

However, I am saying the hysteria around children going back to school is going too far and is not based on the evidence we have. It may well be damaging to our children without due cause. There is very little evidence of severe disease in children, mortality rate is extremely low and the transmission rate between children and child-adult is very significantly lower than between adults (some evidence suggests between 50-65 x lower). The fear regarding sending children to school is not founded on the data we have, so yes- I think there is a lot of excessive, irrational fear which is not based on the evidence that we have (so far).

A number of other countries have managed it and not had issues with massive spikes in infection rates in either children, their teachers or the general population. There was a small initial rise in cases in Denmark, for instance, but it was a small rise and short lived. The issue here in the UK is that with this level of fear, that data would quite possibly lead to unnecessary panic and the closure of schools again.

Plus parents have a key role in helping their dc to understand about physical distancing, it's not just the responsibility of the school.

There won't be any physical distancing in school. It's part of the guidelines that there won't be.

I think if Government wants us to believe they're guided by 'the science', then data would be very helpful. But there seems to be an absence of this, which implies that what is going on is more based on behavioural nudges/ideological decisions to get the economy going.

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/may/13/opening-schools-could-fuel-coronavirus-spread-dfe-adviser-admits

Hmm I saw a thread exactly like this yesterday and it got zapped.

The comment I made yesterday, and I will repeat it is that teachers are effectively "whistle blowing" - they have tooted their whistles to all their relevant authorities and now, probably out of desperation or exasperation, they are whistling away to parents because nobody else seems willing to listen to them.

As a mother of a toddler and a primary aged child, I do worry that this situation may be one that we look back on in future and wonder "why didn't anyone do anything about that?" Only time will tell.

However if schools are open, my employee will expect that my DS1 returns to school. Quite what is going to happen with our childminder for ds2 I don't know.

@TheMostHappy childminders and nurseries can open too.

@jacks11 can you explain why the virologist who was on the BBC news yesterday said that young children are germ monsters and can spread this virus to their parents (and I assume teachers) just like they give you norovirus? This seems to fly in the face of all reports previously reported.

Unfortunately when people in highly paid roles, who are clearly well outside the low socio-economic groups most vulnerable to the virus, take such a dogmatic stance of refusing to even try and work with the elected government (which all other industries and organisations have thus far managed to do), they just propagate the old saying of 'those who can do, those who can't...'

Do you really have to be so rude about a whole profession on the basis of what one person has posted on Facebook?

That aside, I think you have a short memory. Before the schools closed lots of organisations took very responsible decisions to cancel events because contrary to government advice, they felt it was too risky. The spike in cases around Cheltenham would appear to suggest that they were right.

Schools, on the other hand, soldiered on in incredibly challenging circumstances with staff dropping like flies. I know in my school (and I'm sure it was the same everywhere) the staff really did go above and beyond. They kept the school open right to the end. Then they had to turn everything on its head and start teaching in a way that they have never done before to provide home learning. I appreciate that in some schools very little has been provided, but in all the ones I know there has been regular work supplied for the children. A lot of teachers are having to work more hours than they normally do to make this happen. They are finding it really difficult. They are missing their students. They are worried about the vulnerable ones. They are managing, just like everyone else, with their own children at home. Life would be much easier for them if we could all just return to normal. This is not about trying to get an extension on a bonus holiday.

I am not a teacher. I am not talking about me. I am talking about the dedicated professionals that I work with. They are worried about safety for themselves, their students, and the wider school family. Since when was that such a terrible thing?

I despair about the attitude some people have towards teachers I really do.

@ChilliCheese123

The most ridiculous comment you’ve ever seen, is that someone thinks the economy should suffer during a global pandemic, in order to save lives?

The reality is, the economy might suffer, but there are other options available - the economy suffering doesn’t have to result in the death of the poor, the old and the vulnerable. It could result in higher taxes for the rich.

In reality, properly funding public services and extending the furlough scheme wouldn’t come close to the bankers bail out. (Bankers 500 billion furlough scheme 14 billion per month)

Since 2010 the number of U.K. billionaires has doubled 🤷‍♀️ Their worth, collectively, is 123 billion.

If schools were properly funded, staffed and had better buildings and outdoor spaces, returning to school wouldn’t be so hard.

@beebie It wasn’t said that the economy suffers, but the economy ‘tanks’. It’s the total ignorance that a failed economy isn’t that bad, and keeping EVERYONE alive FOREVER is the only way.

Why do we think kids die of malnutrition in third world economies? Do we want to experience life in a country with no social care or benefits system ? How do we pay for care for all these surviving old people when there’s no money ?

a Danish teacher who explained what they were doing to work around the issues having reopened their schools a few weeks ago - solutions like primary and secondary schools swapping teachers so primary teachers who were vulnerable switch to teaching secondary students online and lower risk secondary school teachers teaching in primary schools in person.

Danish schools are very different from ours. It probably helps that they have primary and secondary working on the same site so there are presumably strong connections between them. We have a system of MATs where not all MATs would have primary and secondary. Our systems really aren't set up for that kind of cooperation. It would be like suggesting staff could swap between John Lewis and Asda. Yes it probably is physically possible but there would be a lot of barriers.

Also, do you really want a secondary Latin teacher teaching your Y6 child maths? Or a primary teacher who normally teaches Y1 trying to teach A-level science?

It is fine for the teachers on their 100% pay.

Which they are still working for!

I do think, as I have said already, that the key worker scheme should be extended to all families that need it. We do need people to get back to work. I don't think we need all of primary back by mid-June though!

The teachers at my child's school haven't done a single tap. We've gad two A4 sheets with links to external websites since the lockdown began. It's pure bone idleness on behalf of the teachers. If I behaved like that in my job, I'd be fired.

@ineedaholidaynow

I have no idea who that virologist was, nor what evidence they were using to base that assertion. It certainly would not match with any of the data that has been shared with us and one of our colleagues is one of the leading researchers. So in short, I don’t know why they said that not what data they are using. It does not seem to match the consensus data we have seen.

Some of the evidence has come from case analysis from countries who have aggressively contact traced, who have found the number of children who were the index case is very small and that the number of contacts required for spread was much higher in children than adults.

I’m not suggesting they should be back at school tomorrow- I think there will need to be planning and safety measures taken. I just don’t think it is impossible or hugely dangerous if managed properly.

This is interesting on Schoolsweek:

schoolsweek.co.uk/dfe-chief-scientific-adviser-admits-he-hasnt-assessed-school-reopening-guidance/

The chief scientific advisor for the DfE didn't actually attend the relevant meeting on PPE in schools.

So true, lots of small businesses adapted within a days notice. It is beggars belief how they have not spend the past few months, trying to put together logistics. Do they genuinely believe that it will just blow over like a hurricane, then back to normal?

Schools had to adapt overnight to deliver learning in a completely new way. Which they have been doing. I know my schools did some planning for a return to school before summer, but it wasn't based on the guidelines that have been issued because they are not psychic! They will now have to redo all that planning. And they will, and actually my head seems really keen but I know they are struggling to work it all out. It's easy for people from outside the school system to think these things are easy to do.

and anything they need will ultimately be provided and paid for

Excuse me while I die laughing. We can't even get gluesticks!

Many of that number would ordinarily have died of seasonal flu or other illnesses, or were terminally ill.

No, the 50,000 figure us excess deaths that is over and above what would normally be expected.

@Booboodisney

Perhaps it was my deliberately being obtuse with the phrase ‘tanks’ the economy. It’s something i’ve observed being thrown around as an excuse for everything.

Food poverty is exceptionally real in the U.K. already. We live in a society where billionaires have doubled and food bank usage has sky rocketed. I’ve seen a mum with a very tiny newborn be sanctioned for not attending a meeting when she was supposed to be shielding, she was back paid however had no food whilst the complaint went through. The system is callous.

Food banks are feeding so many, and they’re at breaking point. Children in this very rich nation are already starving, and I mean really starving - without their free school meal voucher, they would not eat. Without the food bank they would not eat. This is nothing to do with the economy.

We do not want to provide UBI, because it would result in increased taxation. We hate teachers because they’re being paid with ‘tax payers money’ we view tax as the devil - rather than the formation of equal society where everyone has the right to healthcare.

We chose to lockdown late because of the ‘economy’ that resulted in 491 deaths per million and rising. We now have to send kids back to school, despite no other nation with similar numbers doing so, because of the ‘economy’. Perhaps I should have said, we’re more bothered about the potential future taxing of the rich, than we are about the elderly and the vulnerable.

Beebie2
Amusingly enough, there's a huge amount of vitriol for teachers who are working (but whatever they do isn't enough for some) but very few threads for those who are furloughed on 80% of their salary for not working that's paid for by the government.

It's just like there's lots of valid criticism of the government handling of the crisis, but on threads linked to schools then it's wrong to criticise the government because the said 'the science says...'.

Wouldn't it be so much better if people kept in their own lanes and stopped feeling the need to throw their poorly informed opinions around.

Effectively holding the country to ransom, by refusing to go to work. How come they are so much more important than any other person who has been working for the past 3 months!

School staff have been working over the last 3 months, including in school with keyworker children as well as providing home learning.

a bit like now really with the hospitals being deserted

Which is mostly due to the risk of picking up covid in hospital, and partly due to the reallocation of resources to fight covid. Both of which will only be improved with a reduction in ... ... ... ? Covid!

However, we would not close the country and lock id down due to seasonal flu would we?

No, this is nothing like seasonal flu!

@LolaSmiles

I agree completely. I’m a part time teacher and I volunteer for a charity too.

Schools are not refusing to work, we’ve been asked to double the size of our school sites, early years provision and the number of educators with no money. It’s crackers, but apparently we just don’t think positive or have a ‘can do’ attitude.

It makes me feel sick when people suggest that being poor and hungry is something that could happen. It’s real.

I’m not an economist, so I probably shouldn’t chuck too much money stuff around, but I’m surrounded by poverty and I’m cross.

I’d love to know what teachers really think of key worker families who have no choice but to send their kids to school. I bet there’s some choice words said about them.

I've not heard a bad word said in my school! The staff are all happy to do their bit to support the families that need it.

the transmission rate between children and child-adult is very significantly lower than between adults (some evidence suggests between 50-65 x lower).

I believe that is open to some debate is it not?