To despair that this government are the ones 'leading' us through this

[ChimChimminey]

It's been a total shitshow

Boris: "go to work from Monday"
Raab: "it starts on Wednesday"
Boris: "you can meet one person outside as long as you are 2m apart"
Raab: "you can meet two people, eg your parents"

Meanwhile VE Day and bank holiday drunken groups everywhere will result in a spike in a few weeks. Work starts today but without any specified jobs apart from two examples! But another gov minister says it starts on Wednesday.

The guidance document will be released this afternoon- after employees have already gone into work. 🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️

No mention of wearing masks on public transport. No mention of over 70's / vulnerable / pregnant women either. No mention of how the fuck these tests are going to be ramped up after their one day over 100k -coincidentally on Hancock's self-imposed deadline. Oh and unlimited exercise starts on Wednesday.

Total disregard for the other UK nations. A vague slogan which contradicts Scotland, Wales & NI's "Stay home". No guidance if you live in Wales but work in England for example.

France has a lower proportional and actual death rate and their restrictions have been incredibly clear. Macron initially admitted to the nation he'd got his approach wrong, apologised and rectified it. He treated the French people like adults. Merkel is putting us to shame. In the past UK leaders like Gordon Brown, or even dare I say it Theresa May would have made an effort for forge some global leadership. Not so for our arrogant island thinking cabinet.

This government are beyond useless. Their approach is clearly herd immunity whilst pretending it is not.

I'm fed up with the daily spin briefings where "the people" get to ask safe questions and ministers just reel off all the measures they say they're taking without actually addressing what matters- the fact that we have second worst death in the world, the worst in Europe, a fraction of the test and trace capacity compared to countries doing well, and not enough PPE.

This is not good enough for a G7 nation. Our leaders are second only in ineptitude to Trump, and I despair.

by saying that you're saying you're accepting that our death rate will be the highest in Europe and second worst in the world, and that that's ok
It's been all over the media that there are a number of reasons why the numbers might look at such and not mean that we are really doing worse. And if we are, a main reason for it is our obesity rate.

There's a weird atmosphere in this country that nobody seems to think the government is supposed to care about the people.

That's because they don't. I'm under no illusion that any of this has been done to protect us, because it hasn't.

I'm more surprised people think the government do care, why should they.

@3dogsnorth I’m in england but I just do what Sturgeon recommends, honest to God.

I agree with you, OP.
We should be angry with this government’s handling of the crisis, it has been a shambles.
I am genuinely bemused that many posters prefer to adopt a supine attitude. Is it more comforting for them to tell themselves that our leaders know what they are doing, despite all evidence to the contrary?

Also the quarantine measures don't apply to travel between Britain and France, as agreed by Johnson and Macron.

3dogsnorth it's very easy for Nicola Sturgeon to come out of this looking good, isn't it? Fewer cases and deaths, because the population is lower, and the density is 1/5 that of England. "Stay home, Nicola will keep you safe"... but when the recession hits and the level of government borrowing becomes stratospheric, that will be on Westminster, won't it? Hard to see how she could come out badly from this, tbh.

And I think it's far too early to say UK will have the second highest death rate. This is going to drag on for years. It's far too soon to say which country will lose the most citizens, and to be frank there are no winners in that contest are there? Brazil's situation is awful currently, as is India's. Many countries have a lack of transparency around their figures, and a fragmented health service and civil service.

Absolutely our govt could have done far, far better.

I am genuinely bemused that many posters prefer to adopt a supine attitude. Is it more comforting for them to tell themselves that our leaders know what they are doing, despite all evidence to the contrary?

The best position to take was to go into this, eyes open just knowing they would fuck it up, talk bollocks and spout a load of figures that just don't stack up.

Why would it ever be any different?

I am curious to know who these people are who have had to go to work at 12 hours notice .

It’s not people working at home
It’s not people who are furloughed
Most people who cannot work from home are either working already or have been furloughed

Where are these people , did people genuinely set off for work without waiting for their employers to get in touch ?

I think they're better organised than the opposition, so yes you're being unreasonable. That's not to say they're handling it perfectly, or even well! Just that we wouldn't be better off with a different government, on the specific issue of handling this crisis, in my opinion.

@AmelieTaylor But Labour, or any other party, haven’t led us through a global pandemic of this scale? We just can’t know.

I keep saying all over social media platforms “Yeah well, Corbyn or Starmer would have handled it worse” Erm, would they? Very poor defence mechanism.

by saying that you're saying you're accepting that our death rate will be the highest in Europe and second worst in the world, and that that's ok
It's been all over the media that there are a number of reasons why the numbers might look at such and not mean that we are really doing worse. And if we are, a main reason for it is our obesity rate

Jesus - it didn't take long to blame the obese for the death rate did it.

If the Govt had done a half competent job, most of those people would not have been on ventilators.

How are you going to blame the obese for the deaths in care homes?

The Scottish economy can go down the swanny because they always have the English economy to fall back on. They can afford to stay in lock down for longer. The English have no safety net. Recessions Kill. Recessions kill. Recessions kill.!!!!
And why is herd immunity such a dirty word?

Just that we wouldn't be better off with a different government, on the specific issue of handling this crisis, in my opinion.

Can't stand Corbyn, never voted for his party but I'd bet money he would never have entertained a herd immunity strategy knowing tens (hundreds) of thousands would die. He would never have had supporters of eugenics as advisers and he wouldn't have lied and lied and lied. I bet he would have signed up to the EU PPE and ventilator scheme instead of loudly giving contracts to big Tory donors who had never made a ventilator or any medical device before. I just don't know what the Tories would have to do before people stopped voting/supporting them.

it didn't take long to blame the obese for the death rate did it

I suppose it makes a change from blaming immigrants or the EU or benefit recipients. Anyone and anything will be blamed ahead of this Gov, nothing bad is EVER there responsibility.

Anyone and anything will be blamed ahead of this Gov, nothing bad is EVER there responsibility.

Whereas your policy of blaming literally everything on the government is so very mature and sensible...

And why is herd immunity such a dirty word

It's not, when achieved with a vaccine.
Without a vaccine it involves ten (or hundreds) of thousands of people dying, the government might be ok with that though.

It's been all over the media that there are a number of reasons why the numbers might look at such and not mean that we are really doing worse. And if we are, a main reason for it is our obesity rate.

You are right on one point in that there were a number of articles pointing out that the figures look worse for the UK when compared as a flat number. So they started comparing the numbers as deaths per million. And guess what? We are still second worst in the world. And that isn't even factoring in the cases that are not included due to the lack of testing / diagnosis capability. The reality will be far worse.

Secondly, if you were right and the UK is disadvantaged due to its obesity rate, then don't you think it's the governments responsibility to factor that in and tackle it??

I dont think any other party would be any better or worse. They would all be dependant on the same sources

@oldWhyno again I refer you to the pp by MintyChapstick about this. Why is your default response to compare this gov with a hypothetical Labour one, instead of comparing to the other actual governmental responses around the world? We are asking why our government's handling has been such a shambles when compared to other, similar advanced nations, such as Germany, France and so on. The only country doing worse so far is led by a populist vacuous far right lunatic....

There hasn't been any mention of patients needing ventilators not being able to get them to the best of my knowledge, and critical care bed capacity has always exceeded demand. So the point about signing up to an EU ventilator deal seems irrelevant. Whatever plans were made on that front appear to have worked. Incidentally McLaren have worked with others to improve and manufacture a Penlon CPAP device. The new version is more efficient, so private public collaboration isn't always a bad thing.

@ChimChimminey
I totally agree with everything you said in your opening post

@NoMorePoliticsPlease and anyone else making this same point... this post was not about asking if this government would be better or worse than a hypothetical Labour government, led by Starmer, Corbyn, Harold Wilson or any other person. I am despairing of this governments handling, when compared to other similar advanced nations eg Germany.

Please stop bringing Corbyn / Labour into it! It's irrelevant!

Just for transparency, which political party are you a member of? Do they have a plan for how this crisis should be handled? Are they supporting the current government, or are they criticising them? Or are they keeping their opinions to themselves? I'm just interested in what you think the leaders in your party are doing better at the moment, and how that could be emulated.

Who are you addressing that to @ADreamofGood? And how is that relevant? As has been said numerous times I'm comparing our governmental response with other existing responses around the world.

You're telling people not to bring Labour into it. So which party are you a member of. It is relevant.

It's completely irrelevant. You're making it a party political issue- or doing your best to. I'm not interested in that. I'm comparing national governments' competency.