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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think "it's alright for you" for those who want lockdown for now until eternity?

381 replies

GlummyMcGlummerson · 11/05/2020 09:04

I've seen, on both MN and social media, outrage after the PM announcement last night that strict lockdown won't be in place any more. Lots of sensationalist "great so now people can come to the Dales and kill us all" type posts. Furious that builders can go back to work and school children can go back to school in June to "kills us all". People are saying we should have lockdown until there's a vaccine, or until September. All these people on social media either:

  • work from home anyway
  • run their business from home
  • didn't work anyway

AIBU in thinking "yeah it's alright for you!". Some of us need to return to work to keep a living and roof over our heads. I am furloughed until the end of the month but if my workplace can't re-open by around July then my job is basically fucked. I'm a single parent to 2, my ex runs a business that also relies on lockdown being eased, so if he loses his business then I lose maintenance payments.

I think it also shows a woeful misunderstanding of what lockdown is for. It wasn't implemented so that we could stay at home while the virus fairy magicked corona virus away. It was never the expectation that lockdown would solve the virus problem. There will be a second peak - NHS barely survives flu season as it is, it's important that the next peak doesn't coincide with the inevitable flu peak

OP posts:
TimeWastingButFun · 11/05/2020 19:21

People have such different views depending on their personal circumstances. And yes the ones paranoid about the lockdown are usually some of the ones (like me) who can't avoid having to care for extremely vulnerable relatives yet also have school aged children who I'm scared will come home with the virus even of I do continue to keep away from everyone myself. It's a huge worry. I'm lucky that my income hasn't changed and I don't need to go out to work, but I do also understand that lots of people are desperate to earn a living to make ends meet. Unfortunately it's one of those horrible circumstances where there is no perfect answer to keeping us all safe.

LettyBriggs · 11/05/2020 19:55

I saw a bbc report a few days ago - don't have it to hand - which showed the number of deaths by age. Something like 90% were over 65. Whose state pensions remain intact so being in lockdown doesn't affect most of them financially.
The remaining 10% were under 65 and many had underlying health conditions.
So the entire country has been locked down to save the over 65s - the very people who are least likely to be affected by the downturn financially.
Not sure why the directive from the government isn't to advise over 65s and those with underlying health conditions to self isolate, and develop herd immunity for the rest of us.
The depression that we will inevitable face after this lock down, and the tax burden on the economically active will be carried for years to come.

Lockdown/school opening can't come soon enough for me.

LettyBriggs · 11/05/2020 19:56

*end of lockdown

Chillipeanuts · 11/05/2020 19:58

TimeWastingButFun

People have such different views depending on their personal circumstances. And yes the ones paranoid about the lockdown are usually some of the ones (like me) who can't avoid having to care for extremely vulnerable relatives yet also have school aged children who I'm scared will come home with the virus even of I do continue to keep away from everyone myself. It's a huge worry.”

Yes, they do. It’s not paranoia in your circumstances but common sense.

SeperatedSwans · 11/05/2020 20:01

OneandTwenty the massive capacity field hospitals they have built currently sat empty will ensure they can cope with demand. Why do you think they built them?

Get the nation back, see a second peak as we get herd immunity and have the nightingales to cope with capacity.

wafflyversatile · 11/05/2020 20:06

Countries who locked down early and hard are lifting it now. We cant lift it safely because our government were slow reckless and incompetent.

I dont want to stay locked down forever but I dont want to be canon fodder for this ruthlessly incompetent govt either.

Blame them not us.

OneandTwenty · 11/05/2020 20:15

SeperatedSwans
all the hospitals currently have space because most medical procedures and treatments have been postponed. That was never going to be sustainable in the long term - it's unlikely it will even be possible with the 2nd or 3rd wave.

Anyone who ever needed medical treatment in this country knows that the NHS was already at breaking point, and not coping. The restrictions tried to prevent a complete disaster.

People who want to lift restrictions too early because they are bored now have lost all understanding of what the medical situation will be very soon.

OneandTwenty · 11/05/2020 20:17

We cant lift it safely because our government were slow reckless and incompetent.

the government will never win on that one. I do not believe for a second another party would have done any better- they haven't come out with any practical advice so far, so if they had been in charge, it would have been chaos.

Hennypenny95 · 11/05/2020 20:27

Only if you don't mind people who are in higher risk groups of dying looking at you and thinking "It's alright for you!"
For many people, it's just about trying not to die.

corythatwas · 11/05/2020 20:49

OneandTwenty the massive capacity field hospitals they have built currently sat empty will ensure they can cope with demand. Why do you think they built them?

Do they have the staffing capacity? Trained staff who can work the equipment?

And if more NHS staff die, what will that do to staffing capacity?

GlummyMcGlummerson · 11/05/2020 21:16

Only if you don't mind people who are in higher risk groups of dying looking at you and thinking "It's alright for you!"
For many people, it's just about trying not to die.

Once again, I'm not suggesting forcing people to leave their homes. People should have a choice based on their personal risk - if you want to stay home then stay home. Don't impose your beliefs about your own safety on others who are lower risk

OP posts:
GlummyMcGlummerson · 11/05/2020 21:16

@corythatwas staff are being redeployed to nightingale hospitals - main hospitals are very quiet and they can very much be spared

OP posts:
DamnYankee · 11/05/2020 21:19

There are times when, frankly, governments need to be a bit totalitarian, and a global pandemic is one of them. *
Shock That's probably the scariest thing I have ever read here on MN.
You would embrace a police state? That is utterly mad. Are you that desperate to have someone make your decisions about your life, family, and liberty for you?
...And what makes you think they'll start sharing the shiny new toy (total power) with the people once coronavirus is "over"?
Statements like this* is why we need to make sure history is taught properly at schools and in homes.

Xenia · 11/05/2020 21:54

Yes, it should be a choice based on a personal risk assessment eg about 322 under the age of 45 have died of it in the UK compared with over 30,000 people who have died of it and 600,000 people who die in a normal year.

I wish the onl people taking the decisions about it were not paid by the state - all the health officials advising and all the politicians are paid by the state so don't have the understanding of the position of many people who have no furlough money, no self employed money and not even universal credit as they have savings.

Devlesko · 11/05/2020 22:14

Xenia? nah, can't be.
Ok, who are you and what have you done with xenia Thanks

GlummyMcGlummerson · 11/05/2020 22:37

You can tell Mumsnet is highly populated by sheltered middle class Waitrose types.

Totally agree with this. No concept of what it's like to be skint. There's another thread running at the moment where the OP suggests we take lockdown as an opportunity to buy land and grow our own veg, FFS. In 3 months people will barely afford to get a shop in but let's go and buy a bit of land.

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 11/05/2020 22:43

the government will never win on that one. I do not believe for a second another party would have done any better- they haven't come out with any practical advice so far, so if they had been in charge, it would have been chaos.

Another government wouldnt have had the misplaced arrogance of this one to ignore relevant science, wouldnt have been putting behavioural science at the forefront. Another government would have listened to and learnt from the mistakes of those countries ahead of them. Every govt makes mistakes. No govt could have fully made up for 10 years austerity. This is not just mistakes. Its recklessness and putting arse covering before lives.

They are lifting lockdown sooner than is wise considering how slow they were to and will blame us when it all goes even more to shit. And they will hope we do too.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 11/05/2020 22:45

The government definitely enforced lockdown at leat a week too late. Shocking really, but it is what it is and we can't turn back time. We can only do what's best in the now

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 11/05/2020 22:51

Englands first case was end Jan. Scotlands first case was end Feb. They imposed lockdown at the same time. Scotland was a week too late. They could have reduced deaths by 80% a week earlier some report has just said. So England was a lot more than a week too late.

Jojobar · 11/05/2020 23:22

I've been called a child killer tonight on social media for suggesting people should send their kids back to school when they can! I live in a pretty affluent area, unfortunately it is pretty clear that there is widespread misunderstanding of why we're at home, everyone is talking about Sept or beyond before they consider letting their children back to school because 'its not safe'. And no one wants to return to work because that's not safe either. They're all waiting either for a vaccine or for people to stop being infected.
Either way I think they're in for a bloody long wait...

ddl1 · 11/05/2020 23:51

'Soon a seperation in society will come, the risk takers, the risk adverse and the fearful well.

Excluding vunerable shielding groups.

The risk takers will return to work, return their children to school and when social/hospitality venues open will begin to use them. They will take the risk of covid to better their living experience.'

I will NOT take the risk of something that could easily kill me or (more likely and perhaps worse) leave me a respiratory invalid for the rest of my life in order to 'better my living experience'. Getting covid would do the opposite!

And what people ignore is that there AREN'T just the two groups: the vulnerable shielded, and the fearful (or fearless) well. There are a LOT of us who are at increased risk, but not enough to be in the shielding category. There are others who are at low risk for themselves but have caring or helping responsibilities for people who are in the shielding category.

I am NOT saying that no one should go back to work, etc. (and the so-called key workers have been doing so from the start, often in the very jobs that are potentially the riskiest). I fully realize that economic ruin could kill people just as much as the disease - why else is life expectancy so much lower in developing than developed countries?!

And I realize that I am lucky to be in a job where I'm able to WFH.

All I'm asking is that 'risk takers' should take into account that there are plenty of people - and not only the ULTRA-vulnerable - who cannot afford to take the same risks as some others, and not sneer at us as having no reason to be fearful.

I do not want an attitude where everyone who seeks to continue on furlough for a while, or to be reassigned to a job category where they can WFH or at least practice social distancing, is treated as a 'scrounger'.

I do not want an attitude where people who continue for a while to refuse party invitations or to get very physically close to friends or relatives are treated as selfish and cowardly, and subjected to emotional blackmail.

As someone who has always had mild disabilities, sufficiently serious to prevent me from doing many things as easily as some others, but not sufficiently serious to be entitled to much assistance, I have suffered badly at times from people taking the attitude, explicitly or implicitly, that 'either you are totally disabled and then you can't complain if you're excluded, or you're not disabled and then you have no right to any help or accommodation'. I REALLY don't want to see the same sort of attitude applied to Covid vulnerability!

I know that the same attitude takes place in the opposite direction - 'why don't people just go on universal credit?'; and elsewhere excessive readiness to condemn people who are obeying all the rules but not doing so in exactly the way that conforms to their expectations (e.g. shopping more than once a week). But that doesn't justify condemning non-risk-takers. It shouldn't be happening in either direction. Either way, it's too much like 'Let them eat cake' -regardless of their financial vulnerability, physical vulnerability, or both!

bingowingsmcgee · 12/05/2020 00:08

Excellent post ddl1

daisychain01 · 12/05/2020 10:58

@Xenia daisy, I don't think we disagree with each other. I wrote " The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) Regulations 2020 have not changed and nor has the obligation generally under English law for employers to look after the safety of workers". So I am saying there is a duty under English law for employers to protect the safety of workers as you agree too

Apologies I understood your comment incorrectly, thanks for clarifying. It is good that your son's employer are proactive in taking their responsibility for staff safety seriously.

Here are a couple of Government resources that have been released in the past 24 hours

www.gov.uk/government/publications/our-plan-to-rebuild-the-uk-governments-covid-19-recovery-strategy

onemorepringle · 12/05/2020 11:07

As someone who has always had mild disabilities, sufficiently serious to prevent me from doing many things as easily as some others, but not sufficiently serious to be entitled to much assistance, I have suffered badly at times from people taking the attitude, explicitly or implicitly, that 'either you are totally disabled and then you can't complain if you're excluded, or you're not disabled and then you have no right to any help or accommodation'. I REALLY don't want to see the same sort of attitude applied to Covid vulnerability!

Excellent post. Thank you.

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