Aibu - so many missing economic cost to health

[Puzzle500]

Possibly going to get flamed...but there seem to be such a large sector of the population who are clear they won't send their children back to school, go back to work etc because of the risk of the virus. On a simple level, I understand that - but why can no one see that if we end up in huge economic decline the health impact and death impact will actually be higher? The future for children in poverty terrifies me

I live in a place with lots of seasonal jobs, second homes, coastal businesses etc, and the whole local population is "keep everyone away forever" - is it just me thinking they are unreasonable on one level as when this is gone, what on earth will they have jobs doing? The town will die.

Limitedsimba123

That’s just not true. Stop scaremongering

yanbu. I expressed concern about death relating to the economy being fucked nd people not getting treatment at the moment, and suggested their lives were worth the same the the lives of people dying of covid. That we needed to work towards balancing it.

Several posters told me 'so people with covid should just be marched down to the morgue and ignored' and 'so we should leave covid patients to die in the street?'

When I pointed they clearly were happy for people to die of anything but Covid, they didn't like it.

Apparently you can't want a bit of balance.

People really don't understand the toll and deaths that will occur from the fall out of covid.

formerchild not that the 85 year old relative isn’t important as well, but I’d also like for our fit and healthy doctors and nurses to not die of their disease leaving their families bereft, children orphaned and the NHS in an even more dire state thanks very much. Until they can properly protect the frontline staff treating this disease then lockdown is necessary. I don’t know how people can repeatedly assert that ‘it’s just some old people dying who would have died anyway‘ when that’s patently not the case.

It is true, I’m not scaremongering, DP and I are both still working fwiw I’m just pointing out that it isn’t just old people that get ill.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31094-1/fulltext

He doesn’t work at the hospital in the article either, it’s a different hospital.

That seems to be changing, the tone on here has defintely changed this morning.

I think a lot of people were doing it because they just wished to stay home on furlough. When that option is removed they will just go back.

It was simply about what was best for them.

Another aspect where people seem unable to join the dots is the impact economic activity has on ability to fund the public sector. Which includes the NHS, public sector salaries, etc.

There are a lot of people on MN who seem to think it's the government's job just to keep shelling out 80% of their salary ad infinitum to allow them to sit in their houses.

I don’t expect there are many people on MN receiving furlough @ 80% of their normal salary. Only a minority of the working population qualify, and the cap brings it down considerably from A mid-life professional salary (lots of those on MN; Also lots of NMW workers on MN and I don’t imagine 80% of NMW is much fun at all.)

I would guess a situation of two furloughed workers in a household is even more unusual, given only 1/5 of the workforce has been furloughed at all.

For example; DH was furloughed (almost by fluke) from a FTC (he’s a contractor), but the net he’s receiving after cap, tax & NI is not much above £1500. I don’t qualify for anything at all. We’d both rather be working, not least because we are munching through savings to meet our basic bills.

I read at the moment 50% of the adult population is being paid by the government- pensions, benefits, furlough or public sector.

When all those people get cuts because the country is bankrupt they will wish they hadnt called for lockdown. I say that as a public sector worker on full pay.

I read at the moment 50% of the adult population is being paid by the government- pensions, benefits, furlough or public sector.

Including all NHS, state school, DWP and other civil servants. Working. For a salary. Do you want them to stop?

Why are the hard right so enamoured with that 50% figure?

Another aspect where people seem unable to join the dots is the impact economic activity has on ability to fund the public sector

I think they can join the dots. They just wished to stay home.

And there are a lot of people on here furloughed or their partner furloughed or getting help due to self employment. An awful lot.

I agree OP. People seem to hear 'protect the economy' and immediately think of FTSE100 fat cats and millionaire Tory politicians trying to line their own pockets. There seems to be a real lack of understanding as to how a deep recession (or depression!) will impact ALL of us.

And there are a lot of people on here furloughed or their partner furloughed or getting help due to self employment. An awful lot.

Why do you think taking an enforced pay cut for sitting around bored is something people enjoy @Bluntness100 ?

Do you really think everyone is inherently lazy? Or that lazy people work in the most affected industries?

With just one of us furloughed, we are on just over a quarter of our normal income and I am bored to tears now.

Quite a bit of traffic in London this morning with people returning to work OP.

Is there evidence that the majority of those furloughed are home with young dc & unable to work from home?

I read at the moment 50% of the adult population is being paid by the government- pensions, benefits, furlough or public sector

What was the % before covid?

Is there evidence that the majority of those furloughed are home with young dc & unable to work from home?

I doubt it. I think there are huge variations and combinations of factors from household to household and a lot of people are torn in two directions. Many people are keen to get back to work and also have childcare or caring difficulties, and/or risk factors in their household. For some people it is much simpler. I don’t think there’s any legitimate way to generalise.

However, suddenly the whole issue has become massively politicised and everyone is taking potshots at invented stereotypes.

OP, everyone is now going back to work and you can too.

What was the % before covid?

It’s normal for a third of the British workforce to be employed by the State in some form, given our NHS etc. Plus pensioners on top. Probably together about 42-44%.

People are enjoying sitting on their arses and getting paid 80% salary and in no way want to return to work due to that as a reason, but citing coronavirus fears instead.

Well, I’d like to go back to work, but due to the nature of my work and workplace, it’s not possible and won’t be for a while. It’s not great fun feeling out of the work loop and unable to contribute to my workplace, all the while wondering whether it will survive this crisis.

I’m hugely grateful for the furlough scheme, but naturally, it’s not going to go on indefinitely. I’ll be surprised and relieved if there isn’t a gap between furlough payments and my return to work - which may well be on reduced hours, if my workplace is able to reopen at all.

I find all this furlough bashing pretty mean-spirited to be honest.

1. It’s not my fault I can’t work;
2. It’s not my employer’s fault we are closed;
3. Furlough payments (which, again, I’m immensely grateful for) enable me to remain economically active, paying tax, etc;
4. Furlough payments also relieve some of the anxiety around not being able to work, benefit my mental health, planning abilities etc;
5. ‘The economy’ isn’t some ethereal concept - it’s your bank account and mine, mortgages and bills being paid, money circulating, tax being paid, plans to spend money in the future, etc.

As for ‘sitting on my arse’, it’s neither here nor there what I do with my time, provided I follow government guidance about safe behaviour.

I don’t know anyone enjoying furlough. They’re all worried sick.

This government were prepared this year to absolutely trash our economy with enormously long term repercussions in order to buy the tenuous, imaginary concept of ‘sovereignty’ and there were people arguing that Brexit was a price worth paying. Now we face recession and catastrophe but at least in the name of saving lives. It’s inexplicable to me that people are prepared to sacrifice the lives of hospital staff, vulnerable people and the elderly along with the unfortunate minority who die or have long term health consequences even without pre-existing health conditions not to mention the emergence of severe illness in some children as well - to attempt to avoid a recession that was coming anyway.

I am not enjoying any single aspect of lockdown, I promise. I don’t want my children off school and I want normal life and normal economic activity to resume. But I don’t think my desire for that means that doctors and nurses should die fighting this virus whilst it’s allowed to rampage through society taking hundreds of thousands of lives with it.

Great post niteflights

What do you think will happen economically if the virus is left to run? There will be a series of peaks and lockdowns or the NHS will be overwhelmed and potentially collapse. That's uncontrolled economic disaster. What we have just now is at least partially controlled by the government.