Sexism/racism

[VivienScott]

A male friend of mine pasted the following on FB to which I responded, that while I totally agree with the sentiment, the first sentence should be amended to “I have privilege as a white male...” on the grounds that women of all ethnicities will think twice about going for a jog, leaving a party, partying on NYE etc because of the heightened threat of violence we face. I’m now being told to check my privilege and that by making that comment I’m racist by making it all about me. Was I being unreasonable? To reiterate, I just said the first sentence needed changing, I wholeheartedly agreed with the sentiment.

I have privilege as a white person because I can do all of these things without thinking twice about it...
I can go jogging (#AmaudArbery).
I can relax in the comfort of my own home (#BothemSean and #AtatianaJefferson).
I can ask for help after being in a car crash (#JonathanFerrell and #RenishaMcBride).
I can have a cellphone (#StephonClark).
I can leave a party to get to safety (#JordanEdwards).
I can play loud music (#JordanDavis).
I can sell CD's (#AltonSterling).
I can sleep (#AiyanaJones)
I can walk from the corner store (#MikeBrown).
I can play cops and robbers (#TamirRice).
I can go to church (#Charleston9).
I can walk home with Skittles (#TrayvonMartin).
I can hold a hair brush while leaving my own bachelor party (#SeanBell).
I can party on New Years (#OscarGrant).
I can get a normal traffic ticket (#SandraBland).
I can lawfully carry a weapon (#PhilandoCastile).
I can break down on a public road with car problems (#CoreyJones).
I can shop at Walmart (#JohnCrawford) .
I can have a disabled vehicle (#TerrenceCrutcher).
I can read a book in my own car (#KeithScott).
I can be a 10yr old walking with our grandfather (#CliffordGlover).
I can decorate for a party (#ClaudeReese).
I can ask a cop a question (#RandyEvans).
I can cash a check in peace (#YvonneSmallwood).
I can take out my wallet (#AmadouDiallo).
I can run (#WalterScott).
I can breathe (#EricGarner).
I can live (#FreddieGray).

White privilege is real. Take the time to consider someone else's experience today. Take action as an ally in your daily life.

And then, if we found 100 people out of that 200 people who would walk alone along the canal at night, chances are that 100 people would be made up of say, 90 men and 10 women so if there was someone lurking in the shadows who had decided to push a random 5 of those people into the canal, simple maths dictates that most of them will be men.

@BarbaraofSeville You are still victim blaming. Just stop digging fgs.

@PlanDeRaccordement well there is the Crime Survey for England and Wales by the ONS for one example. That researches unrecorded and unreported crime.

It is true that certain races do disproportionally commit more crimes than others. Whites disproportionally commit mass murder/serial killing for example. Unless you are saying there are “unreported and unrecorded” missing people that were definitely killed by black mass murderers/serial killers?

Crime patterns, that is types of crime, vary by locations, socio-economic status etc. I was pointing out that some forms of crime (eg white collar) aren’t recognised or recorded as such, and it is primarily WC crime that appears in crime statistics - and crime statistics are not the whole story, just a skewed version of it. Your example of unrecorded mass murder is bizarre.

@PlanDeRaccordement re: white serial killlers - Serial killers are very rare so you would expect that proportionate to the general population in predominantly white countries there would not be very many bame ones? I am sure that seial killers in Africa tend to be black. Indian ones tend to be Indian etc.what would be the socio economic or cultural factors that would make white people more likely to be serial killers if this were indeed true?

TeaStory,
Well the thread is based on the US, not the U.K. But whatever, so presuming your claim is that all races commit crime in perfect proportions in the U.K. and the ONS Crime Survey supports that.

Well, I’ve just read through it and could not find anywhere where the ONS Crime Survey breaks down victims or perpetrators by race at all. So how can the Crime Survey support that “changed picture” of criminal ethnicity compared to police recorded crime data?
www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2019#strengths-and-limitations

Besom,
You are not understanding what disporportionate means. Of course the majority of serial killers should be the same race as the majority race of a country. But it’s not that simple.
In a hypothetical country that is say 68% white, but the serial killers are 82% white, that is disportionately high for the % of the population. In this same hypothetical country, say the population is 13% Asian but the serial killers are only 7% Asian. This is disportionately low.
And when you compare the two, you do the statistical math and you see in this hypothetical country, a white person is more than 2x more likely to be a serial killer than an Asian person.
(This is a hypothetical country with made up figures just to illustrate the difference between disporportionate and majority).

What about the thousands of white working class girls who were systematically enslaved, raped and abused all over the UK for decades with the authorities turning a blind eye because of their ethnicity, sex and class background? Absolutely no white privilege there, in fact their ethnicity and social class was a massive disadvantage for them. So perhaps to add to the list;

I can be a white, working class girl in England (too many names to include).

No that’s not my claim, but as your are wilfully misunderstanding what people are saying I can’t be bothered to engage any more.

“it is primarily WC crime that appears in crime statistics“ (WC standing for white collar)

No actually, crime statistics usually consist of the low volume but high harm crimes such as violent crimes (murder, assault, rape, kidnapping), and thefts (robbery, burglary), and firearm/knife offences. These are not white collar crimes.

No, WC stands for working class.

I do understand proportion thanks. A quick google tells me that the ethnicity of serial killers in US do mirror the proportions in the population and that they are disproportionately white is a myth. You may know otherwise of course.

And in any case the numbers of them are so small i would have thought it was difficult to say much of statistical significance - stats need to be taken with that caveat anyway.

I hope he blocked and deleted you. I would have.

Its a post about race. Not everything has to be about you

It’s a difficult topic because I genuinely believe that racial prejudice exists and undoubtedly influences actions for the worse in some cases. For this reason, it’s hard to provide any counterpoint without sounding racist, and people seem to be firmly polarised on one side or the other. I think a lot of mumsnet posters are likely very out of touch with urban youth culture. Especially as this website leans towards middle class. I’ve lived in East London and now live in the Black Country, and I’m a truck driver working mainly in Birmingham. I always have a driver’s mate and a fair few have been young black guys from poorer backgrounds - it’s the type of job that appeals as you need a good geographical knowledge of the area, ideally knowing the individual street names, and qualifications don’t matter.

My current driver’s mate is 22yo black guy from Handworth. The stuff he tells me he encounters is a far cry from my youth. A lot of the youth have moved on from grime music (already renowned for drugs and violence) to ‘UK drill’ which is basically just the modern UK equivalent of 90s US gangster rap. It’s all about fighting with the ‘opps’ (opponents I presume) and a large bulk of the content is just insults and attempts to wind up gangs from neighbouring postcodes - the police have supposedly banned loads of drill videos from YouTube as they were directly causing stabbings and shootings (they often show things like gangs filming themselves on ‘opps’ territory and laughing about it etc, shaming them into a response to save face, and they all wear hoods and mask etc so police can’t use the videos as evidence of the boasting about murders - ‘no face, no case’).

He was playing a tune the other day and the chorus went “I release my stress on flesh, carve out wounds in backs and chests”. Another one had a guy saying how he wasn’t sorry for the mum of one of the recently murdered opps and would piss on his grave if he knew where it was. Silly misguided teenagers but still ones who carry knives and have no fear of going to prison - many are uploading vids from inside on smuggled phones. My driver’s mate is a good lad, but I asked him if he didn’t find this stuff a bit offputting and he just shrugged and said it’s the life they (the rappers) live. I remember reading a discussion on a music forum, and a lot of people were saying that the current
level of gang murders aren’t really proportionate to the level expected from the current amount of drug crime and that the problem is actually more culture based - i.e. young males finding the lifestyle of girls, drugs, cash, appealing. Of course, however, this might be different if they had genuine prospects, as for many the alternative would be a shit minimum wage job.

I think the problem is massively deep and multi dimensional, but I also feel like people are scared to discuss some issues for fear of being branded racist, which was the same situation that many feel happened during the Rotherham sex scandal - nobody wanted to speak out. I think we really need to get to the bottom of this violent inner city culture as it’s behind so many of the murders and is likely part of the reason why police rightly or wrongly stereotype certain demographics or are twitchier when interacting with them, being more likely to use lethal force.

Hi all. We've deleted some posts by a goady PBP on this thread.
Hopefully things will get back on track now.

@VivienScott What are your thoughts now? Do you still feel the same?

@ftmf30 I still feel the post was written very much from a poison of white male privilege with no regard or acknowledgement of the sh!t women put up with every day.
For the record to others, no we don’t face being gunned down, yes we do face increased risk of violence and sexual assault. I would certainly consider a running route and time of day having had a friend who was raped and their case belittled in court due to her running gear possibly being provocative whilst out running. Rare I know, but life altering for her. I was accosted by a man on a walk the other day who told me it was so deserted where we were, no one would hear me scream, pretty terrifying and has made me reconsider when and where I walk, ruining my normal dawn first thing in the morning walks.
The point is the post is classic white male privilege completely ignoring the issues faced by social groups that aren’t their own. As a white woman I can’t do exactly what I want without thinking.
Yes, black people and women face even more issues than me as a white woman. But I still think the post was worded wrongly by saying all white people can do as they please without fearing violence or brutality down to their social grouping.

Wow

Yes, black people and women face even more issues than me as a white woman
And it's quite shameful that you must go and make a post about their issues about you.

This was about the race. I don't understand what's so difficult to get. I am a white female and i don't have to fear to be killed for being white female.

Not everything has to be split into million little pieces and be about everyone.

Holy fuck you have realllly missed the point on this one...

The point is the post is classic white male privilege completely ignoring the issues faced by social groups that aren’t their own

Are you White Feminist trolling? Can you not see how ironic this statement is?

Yeah, YABVU. Have you never heard of intersectionality? Saying that someone is privileged in one way (eg because they're white) doesn't mean that they can't be not privileged in another (eg because they are female).