To wonder why the Brits are so obsessed with WW2?

[MrsSchadenfreude]

My Mum is 87. She was 12 when the war ended and went through it in London. She remembers being terrified and hungry and getting grief because her grandmother was German. Other elderly relatives don’t have lovely memories either, apart from relief when it was all over. So why do we glorify it all, at every opportunity? Why do we always look back instead of forward?

Oh, and the war would never have been won without the Soviets. Anyone who thinks America saved us all is deluded

OP I fear this wont end well for you but I totally get your point.

I think originally it was a relief celebration but as time has gone on the message is lost on many and it becomes about something else. I read somewhere that huge numbers of people believe Britain won the war and these celebrations of Britain winning the war is both tasteless and wrong imo. Anyone who has done o level history knows it was the Americans and Russians who did.

I think if now VE Day is being recognised it shouldn’t be with ridiculous street parties and fucking Countless Vera lynn-a-likes, it should be with reverence and Dignity, neither of which is reflected in butchers apron bunting,Victoria sponges or too much alcohol.

Its our countries flag, deal with it.

It is my country's flag.

If you cannot be bothered to learn the history and language of this country, I think you no longer deserve the right to call it your flag.

What do you mean? The side no longer exists. The U.K. still does. It is the country we all agree to live in together.

You said

It was horrendous for everyone, regardless of whether they were French, Italian or whatever.

I agree. And if the people who say the 75th VE day celebrations are about remembering and honouring sacrifice are genuine, then sides and flags have no place in that.

So the fact that sides, flags and "our people", "our nation", "our victory", "our finest hour" are so very clearly a big part of so many people's VE day makes me think jingoism and national pride is playing a bigger part than they may want to admit.

Mrs, yes and no - Soviets played a huge part but they (and others) were exhausted by the end and the US help was desperately needed. Both played a big part at different stages. And Brits played a key role too at certain stages, not least a HUGE contribution to intelligence cracking German codes etc..

Wheres the quotation marks, sarah?

What do you mean? I quoted you in bold to indicate quotation. Are you asking me to tell you how to use punctuation on this site or asking me to vary my usage because you don't understand standard conventions?

But you are deciding that the flag has negative connotations; that’s really your issue and not a reflection on people who do have national pride.

I am quite capable of feeling a sense of solidarity with other countries and experiencing pride in my own nation at the same time.

And if you don’t feel any sense of pride in the U.K., it shouldn’t matter to you one way or the other how people behave.

Im asking you to use punctuation properly if you're going to pretend it matters with others because you dont have a decent argument.

Ok, well, when you manage to post a correctly punctuated post, I'll give that a go. I'm waiting.

The most important lesson and reason to remember WW2 is the Holocaust,

6 million people died horrible deaths because of one mans brainwashing and hatred.

I've never quite got the point of 1940's themed parties. There was no food, the blitz and I can't imagine line was much fun. So I don't understand why people glamorise it.

Read this this morning and it had me weeping. We fight all these wars and don't get billions in reparations. We just get PTSD as I am sure most families in Europe do, including Germans. My grandfather was also named Joe Wilson like this poet , he fought the Germans in WW1 and had a bunch of medals for taking out a machine gun position. He never talked about it just my grandfather didn't with WW2.

I am your Gypsy warrior
Of me you can be sure
I’ll wear your ribband coat And I’ll fight your foreign war.

You train me up in Dalton
You send me off to France
I was only there a short while Before you ordered the advance.

My comrades they’d all fallen The Germans thought they’d won But they’d not beat this Gypsy From no man I would run.

So I gathered up the weapons Moved forward on my own
And I killed those German soldiers I killed them every one.

So you’re sending me back home now Say the King I have to meet
He wants to pin on me a medal
And I’m carried through your streets.

But when the war is over
And my soldiering days are done I go back to hawking carpets And I throw away your gun.
But you bang me up in prison You say that I am bad
But it is not surprising

For a war-scarred Gypsy lad.
And when my days are over You push me in the ground
With no head stone above me No flag no bugle sound.
Yet I was once your hero
Of me you could be sure When England needed heroes This Gypsy heard your call.

I won your highest honour
I won your Victoria Cross
But now I lie in unmarked ground And you don’t grieve my loss.

So listen all you Gypsies
You Traveller boys heed well
Should you fight and die for England
She’ll just leave you where you fell.

For we don’t have a country That we can call our own
As we travel down the highways With a trailer for our home.

Joe Wilson

@notimagin

I was referring to the bouncing bombs...as you say, they were more effective as propaganda than bombs but that doesn’t detract from the ingenuity of the idea. I’m not an expert in bombs (!) and there were probably other developments that were more effective, but I was just outlining the innovative thinking.

6 million people died horrible deaths because of one mans brainwashing and hatred.

It really wasn’t just one man. It’s very naive to think it was.

@CatAndHisKit I know that. It was a collective effort, it just annoys me that somehow a lot of people seem to forget about the Soviets, especially when it comes to the death camps, in which 3 million POWs died.

I've just finished reading a book on Stalingrad, so it's at the forefront of my mind at the moment

But you are deciding that the flag has negative connotations; that’s really your issue and not a reflection on people who do have national pride.

No, I'm saying national pride (whether represented by a flag or the white cliffs or a plate of very British scones) has no place in a day that is apparently about celebrating the end of a war and remembering the sacrifices made.

Of course if today is about celebrating winning a war, well then national pride is totally appropriate. But I'm being told that's not what today is about, hence my questioning why the flags.

Because if this country & it's allies hadn't stood up to Hitler & his forces, we would all be speaking German. He was an evil tyrant who wanted all of Europe for himself & his master race. Look at all the people he wanted to destroy, Jews, homosexuals, disabled, old people, anyone who spoke against him. We have to remember so that we never allow anyone to do the same again, to give thanks to everyone who gave their lives or six years of their life so that we can be free to live our lives as we choose. My uncle gave his life, he was only 21, had the rest of his life in front of him, but he volunteered to join the RAF, he was under age when he joined but lied about his age because he wanted to fight, he flew over 50 missions with Bomber Command but was shot down 8 weeks before VE day, leaving his family & girlfriend he was due to marry at the end of May 1945, she never married & always carried his wings with her wherever she went.

I think we are going around in circles.

National pride is about the sacrifices British people made. It is not about being winners.

We stood alone against most of the world to defeat Germany.

This is probably the reason a lot of people 'celebrate' the day. The same people need to study more. A lot more.

Actually think OP has a point after today. My grandad is late 80s so was a teenager at the time, and he said he's over it. We can't forget a time like that of course but actually agree it's time to move on....... and no one I know has a clue what happened in WW1. Sad but most people know hitler and that's all

Hitler was part of a fascist system run and sponsored by big industrialists who are still running the show today. The Holocaust did not happen because of one man's hate, it was a plan by many many people to get Jews out of Europe.

National pride is about the sacrifices British people made. It is not about being winners.

Ah I see. It didn't occur to me that the people who say the purpose of today is remembering the sacrifices, contribution and hardships of the war today would limit themselves just to those made by people from this country.

But however you frame it, national pride can only exist in the context of national identity and boundaries. I don't think any of that has a place in a day to commemorate the end of a world war.

Apologies, the end of the European part of a world war

And kill millions of others