High achievers and self motivation

[DuploTower]

I'm very curious to hear peoples experiences and opinions on this.

Many of my parenting peers, or rather friends or playgroup acqaintences (pre lockdown I should add) are very relaxed about their children playing hours of computer games most days, encouraging and supportive of homework if children want to do it, but not pushing it if child isn't interested in doing so. Exams are similar, if they're not interested in studying then that's OK - they will learn motivation when something interests them. Leaving it up to the kids teaches them about consequences etc. If they'd rather play xbox before bed than read, that's fine.

When I was a kid and I think of my class peers, and those of my younger siblings, those who have done well and seem to have satisfying, fulfilling jobs and a decent standard of living are those whose parents limited TV, enforced homework, had stricter boundaries and high expectations.

It's most likely my social group, but it really doesn't seem common nowadays to expect kids to work particularly hard.

I don't know what is actually normal or what approach is best.

What is your experience growing up and what is/will be your approach with your own kids.

Or to make this an AIBU - Am I being unreasonable in thinking that if kids see schoolwork/homework as optional - they're not going to do it.

I think children need boundaries, rules and parents that care if they do well but I'm careful not to pile on pressure so try to strike a balance. I have a good job and worked hard at school so try and model this for my children. My children have seen me doing university work and I always say you get out what you put in- hard work pays off

I put too much pressure on myself growing up- I put in hours of school work and never needed my parents to encourage me to do more- I could have done with my parents asking me to relax more and do less so I'm watchful of this with my teenagers- relaxation and down time is equally important along with rest.

I’m an the nominated ‘homework dragon’ here. DS1 is still small but I want to instil the habit that ‘you do homework and then you can play’ that I grew up with from my DParents.

I did a PhD and therefore was a tutor to undergraduates and it struck me at the time that they weren’t fully grown up (I kept this to myself) and therefore believe even teenagers need help and guidance to make choices (as do I still at times!).

I’m being very relaxed with my kids in lockdown. My son, given a choice, would watch YouTube or play on his PS4 all day. My daughter has to be told to step away from the schoolwork eventually - she is extremely self motivated and I just try and steer her in roughly the right direction.

I was pushed and pushed by my mum, to the point that it’s ruined me. Nothing was ever enough.

Yes I have a great career and education, but I suffer every day with the complex that I am never ever enough and I need to be perfect in everything I do, I truly hate it because I’ll push myself until I burn out or until I’m happy, which I never am. It’s a horrible cycle that I’m only just learning to break free from.

For my own children, I’ll push and motivate them gently and make sure they know that as long as they do their best it’s enough, that they’re enough. Everyone has different abilities across every aspect of life and we should embrace what we’re good at and learn from what we are not

It's more complex than that. Self-motivation is an aspect of personality. Children do need boundaries and I've always enforced homework (including ensuring that extension work is done where appropriate), but you can't engineer self-motivation.

I'm in awe of my girls at the moment. They're incredibly self-motivated and continuing to work hard at their studies - even though one was GCSE exam year, and was hard hit at the loss of what she'd worked so hard towards for two years.

I think it's very important to help your children build up the ability to self-motivate. To have dreams and ambitions, and to understand why.

With mine, I have been admonished for not being sufficiently tiger mommish as a parent by my eldest.

But my job is to grow my kids into good adults, who are mentally and physically healthy, well educated, well rounded people. So it's a balancing act. I tend to have to tell mine to take a bit of time out from studying.

Without bragging, I had naturally huge potential as a child. Genius level IQ, and a home life with huge cultural capital.

My parents expected highly of me, but those expectations didn't translate into pushing me in any way. I was naturally fairly compliant so certainly didn't need pushing to do homework, and I found exams so easy that I achieved high marks from practice papers onwards. So exams never daunted me. I had a good memory, and on top of that devised clever techniques of my own to make it even better.

What I DIDN'T get was any sort of encouragement to either specialise in a passion of my own, not to specialise in something that would make a lot of money - both of which I'd have easily been able to do as a good all rounder academically.

It was generally assumed that as I could pretty much do anything I wanted, I didn't need guidance in working out the right or best thing for me. Hence me sort of drifting into a career I have hardly any attachment to and only belatedly working out my real passion.

I envy those who worked it out early and committed themselves early to. I'm capable enough that my career is doing great, but that makes it feel like a plunge into my passion would be even more risky than if I were starting from nothing.

Well growing up I just did my homework, I've always worked hard and my parents didn't have to nag me. I watched loads of TV, played computer games too but kids have a lot of leisure time!

My job is pretty good and I'd say I've had a fulfilling and varied career to date but I'm also mixed race from a working class, disadvantaged background so I don't think anyone expected me to set the world alight. I'm on a high profile leadership programme so must be doing something right.

My husband has a much better paid chartered professional job, his parents were very strict on him so maybe you're right. He's always known some professions weren't on his parents acceptable list. Saying that he's nowhere near as self motivated as me, his parents pushed and monitored everything he did.

Now we have kids though he admits that he's so embarrassed he doesn't know who thundercats are, never got to watch teenage TV, doesn't have any of the cultural references that his peers have. Most of their restrictions were just pure snobbery. He's pretty rubbish with IT too so I'm not sure his lack of access to computers helped him. Not to say computer games are all educational but we're in a digital world.

Then there's happiness too. Is it better to have miserable grown up children who've ticked every box their parent asked but find themselves in the wider world completey overwhelmed. It happens.

My mum was an absolute enforcer on the homework front (she had similarly high standards herself) and that work ethic is one of the best things she ever gave me and has given me a great job and a mostly happy life. I'm quite a lazy person by nature, too!

@LemonSquash94 that's how my husband feels from his pushy upbringing. He can't handle making mistakes or sometimes quite simple things that go wrong, he doesn't see it as part of being a fallible person but really beats himself up. It's sad to see. It's not your typical perfectionism, that's different.

@boylovesmeerkats It must be horrible to have to watch, it’s definitely not the typical perfectionism no. It’s made me determined that I won’t pass it on to my own children

I think you just haven't read the MN Education boards.

Two things we have as mantras are:

All you can do, is your best. If you have done your best, that is good enough.

and:

The only bad mistakes we make, are the ones we don't learn from.

I haven't read the MN education boards! I didn't know there were.... I'm off to do so!

For the record - I don't think I pressure my kids, it's not about achievement, its about effort and the discipline of doing a reasonable amount first then you can do your own thing. But I seem to be in the minority among my friendship group and worry that this isn't the right approach and that I'm robbing my kids of the opportunity to learn internal motivation.

Pps who are naturally motivated are interesting - I'm so curious where that drive came from.

I think it’s about offering opportunities, instilling a love of learning and setting very clear boundaries around education. It’s not the homework that is important but the wider education through activities and parenting. It isn’t dull or stopping fun, it’s opening eyes to the wider world.
We set high expectations, expected hard work and commitment, refused to accept ‘hanging around’ as a norm.
Our children and friends who had involved parents offering wide opportunities and a structured upbringing definitely have the higher achieving and most fulfilled young adults.
I think the laziness of ‘just wanting them to be happy’ style of parenting creates significant underachievement. Nothing more damning than low expectations.

I think those who are happiest in life are the ones that are more relaxed. I'm thinking of my dds friends, the high achievers from being pushed by their parents are ending up in jobs that those who werent pushed so hard are also in. All they have to their advantage are better grades to brag about. Plus , they missed out on a lot of fun growing up.

I coasted into a good career in part off the back of excellent school grades that my parents forced me to get.

I didn't realise at the time that my grades would have had such an important lifelong impact - probably for the best, as that would have put actual pressure on me, as opposed to a mild grumble at having to do schoolwork I didn't particularly want to do.

There's a balance between encouraging your kids and making them feel miserable with the pressure of your expectations, but my parents made clear that they only wanted me to do my best, and if I didn't do my best, I would know. I think that was the right amount of pressure - I was motivated by my own desire not to let myself down, as opposed to a fear of being unemployable and one day living under a bridge.

Parents who don't gently nudge their children at all are doing them no favours. Some children aren't academic, which is fine, but some really are and just need a little push to knuckle down and get the grades they are capable of getting. Parents should be able to figure out which camp their kids are in and support them down the appropriate route without projecting their own background on them.

Someone from a vocational background could have an academically-minded child and someone from an academic background could have a vocationally-minded child. It's important to acknowledge your solution might not the same as your child's, and then to give them gentle encouragement in being the best they can, but not to shove them down that route. Putting too much pressure on a child often backfires.

It's interesting - I have a professional job and I had to work very hard to qualify for it. All that motivation came from me (and a little from my employers who were paying for it).

When bringing up my children I feel I got it right. Perhaps it is just the personality of the children but it seems to have worked.

I did limit screens when they were small - but at some point this was relaxed - I wish I could remember their ages when this was, but I can't.

I never pushed them as such, but at family mealtimes I would possibly drop into the conversation how qualifications open doors and other similar aspirational messages. This meant they grew up with an expectation from me, but no actual boundaries.

It helps that they are academic and went to good schools and were in good social groups (peer pressure has a huge effect on motivation). They both did extremely well in GCSEs and A Levels. They are both at Uni now, and are spending lockdown studying all day for their exams looking to maximise their grades.

My childhood/teenage years sound similar to @thecatsthecats'. I was a very high achiever at primary school and pushed hard through secondary school. But I was dissuaded from following my passions (art/creative writing) and ended up studying very dry academic subjects that didn't lead me to a particular job (or even a well paid job) or give me the chance to "hone my passions".

So I am much more relaxed with my own children, I encourage them to do the basics (maths/English) but don't push much else. I also do what I can to encourage all their interests.

My parents were very, very laid back with me. No rules, no checking I did homework, no reading. Growing up I never made any effort with school work or homework and never put much effort in but managed to stay in top sets for everything. However, when I got to year 10 a switch flipped and I became very self-motivated and determined and unfortunately a perfectionist all off my own back. I now have a degree and master's and I am planning on doing a PhD. Even when I got a distinction in my master's and was top of my year they just did not seem that bothered. They just do not value academia so I have done it all through my own motivation. My siblings on the other hand did not have that switch in attitude I had and so have not pursued education beyond GCSE.

I think when I have children I will be a lot more strict than my parents. They will have to do homework, reading, etc. I would also encourage them to do extracurriculars (preferably one instrument and one sport) as that is something I wish I had been made to do as I think it teaches a lot of valuable skills. However in secondary school I will let them know that I don't mind them taking it relatively easy in years 7 to 9 but once they get to year 10 they need to start taking it seriously and study for their exams.

I grew up with a large family who read books to me from babyhood where everybody thought it was their job to teach others things plus nudge them to be interested in learning, and an extended family with different jobs due to a load of different reasons. Screen time, which was TV and videos, wasn't limited and there were discussions about people's circumstances.

Due to having some siblings much older their children were brought up similarly but with different technology. This meant while the kids had things like personal games consoles they individually got to the point were they would rather interact with other people or do other things like play instruments, read or make things.

The one thing that stands out is adults - this includes random friends of family members - never have had an issue telling a young person in my family that a particular job/career is hard and/or badly rewarded then directing them to something allied that was/is better.

I should add I do know families where children were completely pushed, and as adults they haven't achieved anything including their own piece of mind. I haven't managed to have a proper discussion with any of these individuals as the people who say they were brought up in similar circumstances have all achieved something socially worthwhile.

Brought up very much in the benign neglect way.
Good schools, high expectations but not really any pushing/supervising at all - expected to get on with it.
I did well at uni as did my siblings.
I'm now in a pretty high pressure full on job and it's clear that those colleagues who were hothoused to get there often really struggle.

I think I'm naturally motivated and I enjoyed school in general. I got the equivalent of about AAA in my school leaving exams (went to school in different country), so did well but not genius/Oxbridge level. I have a BA and MA, and often think I'd like to do a PhD but it's not practical now.

We always had books and things at home, and my parents both had degrees, so I did feel an underlying expectation that I'd try to go to uni, but my parents never pushed me.

My eldest is only 8 and does her homework without fuss, but she definitely doesn't enjoy it like I did at that age. I can imagine that this will cause some tensions as she grows up. On the other hand, she's very athletic and self-motivated to beat her PB at running, even if not in the spellign test!

*spelling test. Of all the words I could spell incorrectly!